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Thank you so much for this forum! It’s a wealth of knowledge. I wanted to know if anyone had experience with Myra’s Toy puppies in Davie, Fl. Her manner is abrupt but she does know her stuff about dogs. Additionally I had one concern that her dogs hair was wavy not that curly. Is it because she has mixed her breeds?

 

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Hmmm . . . no information about genetic testing on her web site. One photo of a toy poodle suggests that it is a toy because it has short legs. None of the poodle puppies have been groomed other than a bit of scissoring below the eyes. She cross-breeds (Maltese or Bichon withShih Tzu). All the pictures are of puppies - a reputable breeder posts photos of sires and dams. All in all I would avoid this person.
 

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The website suggests this is not a reputable breeder. Everything Johanna said... you do not want a poodle with short legs as they are at higher risk for intervertebral disk disease. She seems to purposefully breed for poor coat quality and they do not look like purebred poodles. Look for a breeder that breeds to the poodle standard if you want a well-tempered dog with sound structure and health.
 

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“I have introduced some other breeding into the gene pool to set type and temperament.”

“My Poodles have a slightly different coat, more wavy than kinky curly, the body is a little stockier and they have a shorter muzzle.”


This is not a responsible breeder.
 

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“I have introduced some other breeding into the gene pool to set type and temperament.”

“My Poodles have a slightly different coat, more wavy than kinky curly, the body is a little stockier and they have a shorter muzzle.”


This is not a responsible breeder.
i went to this website after reading this. OMG. Save yourself, dodge this bullet of a greeder who does not know anything about poodles.

I found this photo on her website. This is not a quality poodle. This dog’s legs are too short.

473102
 

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i went to this website after reading this. OMG. Save yourself, dodge this bullet of a greeder who does not know anything about poodles.

I found this photo on her website. This is not a quality poodle. This dog’s legs are too short.

View attachment 473102
Skylar I looked at that picture too and was exceedingly unimpressed. Not only too short on leg, but shorter in the front than the back. If you want a good poodle OP, go to another breeder.
 

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i went to this website after reading this. OMG. Save yourself, dodge this bullet of a greeder who does not know anything about poodles.

I found this photo on her website. This is not a quality poodle. This dog’s legs are too short.

View attachment 473102
This is a very shih tzu shaped “poodle”.
 

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In case you haven't seen this...

Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it.

A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $1500 to $3000 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.
Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".

The Poodle Clubs are an excellent resource. Look for the breeder referral person for your province or city by searching for "Poodle Club of ___".

As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, I'll drop my personal criteria:

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come. Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred.

Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time :)


My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.



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Thank you so much for this forum! It’s a wealth of knowledge. I wanted to know if anyone had experience with Myra’s Toy puppies in Davie, Fl. Her manner is abrupt but she does know her stuff about dogs. Additionally I had one concern that her dogs hair was wavy not that curly. Is it because she has mixed her breeds?

Thank you so much for this forum! It’s a wealth of knowledge. I wanted to know if anyone had experience with Myra’s Toy puppies in Davie, Fl. Her manner is abrupt but she does know her stuff about dogs. Additionally I had one concern that her dogs hair was wavy not that curly. Is it because she has mixed her breeds?

Hi, I'm Myra. I have never professed that my poodles are show quality. I breed what I like.
I showed my Bichons for years but I have discovered that most people who contact me want a healthy, sweet tempered companion dog. If they ask for a show puppy I advise them to seek out a show breeder. I have never presented my puppies as show prospects. I do not breed very many poodles but the ones I breed are genetically sound have good temperament and are meant to be a good family pet. I tell people up front these are not show dogs, they are pets. I have enjoyed excellent feedback from my puppy owners and they love their dogs. I have over 30 years experience breeding, raising and training dogs. If I can be of any help or answer any questions please feel free to call me. Thank You for your kind interest.
 

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Hi, I'm Myra. I have never professed that my poodles are show quality. I breed what I like.
I showed my Bichons for years but I have discovered that most people who contact me want a healthy, sweet tempered companion dog. If they ask for a show puppy I advise them to seek out a show breeder. I have never presented my puppies as show prospects. I do not breed very many poodles but the ones I breed are genetically sound have good temperament and are meant to be a good family pet. I tell people up front these are not show dogs, they are pets. I have enjoyed excellent feedback from my puppy owners and they love their dogs. I have over 30 years experience breeding, raising and training dogs. If I can be of any help or answer any questions please feel free to call me. Thank You for your kind interest.
A person buying a poodle pup, should expect a breeder to be doing something with their dogs conformation, agility, scent work or hunting, not just breeding and selling cute puppies, the parents of the puppies sound be health tested for soundness, in the case of toys or miniatures a OFA exam for good knees, PRA
A luxating patella surgery runs about $4k per knee in the northeast
Progressive Retinal Atrophy is a disorder that leads to the eventual blindness of an afflicted dog.
The only way these can be prevented, and they are genetic and passed down, is not to breed affected dogs.
If you intend on buying a purebred dog, mak sure it is a well bred dog, not all pure breeds are well bred and not knowing the difference can lead to a lot of heartache and expense.
I made a mistake in buying "just a pet" poodle, whom I love dearly for $750.
This darling girl has cost me now $24,000 in her seven years, was a short legged long body adorable puppy, her luxating patellas showed up at 6 months resulting in surgeries at 16 months and just shy of 3 yrs, the rest of her health issues have a genetic component, although not tested for, kidney disease, urinary tract disease diagnosed at 4 yrs.
The cancer tumor removal combined with a umbilical hernia repair at age 5
Thyroid diagnosed at age 6
Gallbladder blockage and liver issues at age 7.
Compare this with my boy I spent $2500 buying from a companion show breeder who does the appropriate testing, yes my boy retained baby teeth but he is happy healthy and active he has no health issues, takes heart worm medication but that is it.
Both my girls are not from good breeders and the ancient chi mix is from a pet store, she was my mother's dog, have to take 12 different medications daily, you would think that would be mostly the old dog for old age things, nope the old dog takes meds because she us poorly bred and has bitten people so she has meds to help with her inappropriate aggression.
My other poodle 6 1/2 yrs has IVDD, distachsis and severe food intolerances. This little girl is long bodied too, I have to have ramps and rugs down for her, she also see an ophthalmologist twice a year. Yep ~$7k on medical bills.
I paid money for my girls, I didn't get them from a rescue, I didn't do due diligence. My girls suffer although I try my best to make sure the life is the best they can live.
Never again
I tell my story so people will know, as soon as Beatrice's breeder was told about the bad knees, my number was blocked.
A breeder should support you, help you and not ignore bad news.
Never again
I learned the hard way, I will never buy "just a pet" poodle again, I have two breeders picked out that do all the testing, one goes above and beyond.
Or I will go through a poodle rescue, knowing that a dog might not be in the of health or have best genetics going in.

Never again, my heart breaks for my girls
 

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Thank you so much for this forum! It’s a wealth of knowledge. I wanted to know if anyone had experience with Myra’s Toy puppies in Davie, Fl. Her manner is abrupt but she does know her stuff about dogs. Additionally I had one concern that her dogs hair was wavy not that curly. Is it because she has mixed her breeds?

Hi everyone, perhaps you should read what I wrote on my website. I do not claim to be a show breeder, I am breeding what I like and what my clients request. I never claim that I am breeding show puppies, I am breeding sweet, well adjusted PET poodles. My clients call me for a pet, if they are looking for a show puppy or even a baby from a show litter I refer them to the AKC.org site to look at their breeder referrals. I have been breeding dogs for over 30 years, I do not claim to be a show breeder. My primary concern is temperament and sound quality genetics. I take the feedback from my clients and try to breed what they want in a puppy. Don't be so quick to judge when you assume things that other people say are fact which is frequently incorrect.
 

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Show Poodles are pet Poodles.

Madam, you have reached the premier forum for Poodle fanciers. This group overall consists of highly breed educated Poodle owners and possible future owners. They are almost to a one unlikely to be persuaded by such protestations.
 

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Hi everyone, perhaps you should read what I wrote on my website. I do not claim to be a show breeder, I am breeding what I like and what my clients request. I never claim that I am breeding show puppies, I am breeding sweet, well adjusted PET poodles. My clients call me for a pet, if they are looking for a show puppy or even a baby from a show litter I refer them to the AKC.org site to look at their breeder referrals. I have been breeding dogs for over 30 years, I do not claim to be a show breeder. My primary concern is temperament and sound quality genetics. I take the feedback from my clients and try to breed what they want in a puppy. Don't be so quick to judge when you assume things that other people say are fact which is frequently incorrect.
This forum does tend to favor purebred, show type poodles. It’s a poodle forum, after all. We want our poodles to look and act like poodles. It sounds like showing isn’t your thing. That’s cool; not everyone is into the show scene. However, many people on this forum have encountered the sad victims of backyard breeders and puppy mills. When a breeder chooses to strike off in an unusual direction, it’s pretty normal we would question whether that path leads to a good place. The people on this forum, for the most part, consider animal health and welfare the most important characteristic of any breeder, even more than success in the show ring.

Since you don't show, what other criteria do you use to evaluate your breeding stock? Are you putting them through Volhard, AKC CGC, or ATTS evaluations? What sorts of health and genetic screenings do you perform before breeding, and how do you prove these to your buyers? Are you posting these results to OFA.org, for example? One of the dogs on your web site has a very long back and short legs; this phenotype is commonly associated with an increased chance of back problems. Are you testing your dogs for the CDDY mutation? Knowing the measures taken to ensure a puppy is born with the best possible chance for a happy and healthy life goes a long way towards calming concerns.
 

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If I'm the one to catch a member, especially one to new to poodles, this is the advice I give to them when researching and selecting a breeder. Part of this is above in the posts from 2021 but this is the current version.

"If researching and selecting a quality, conscientious breeder is either new to you or it's been a while, here's some tips.

You can also read information directly from one of our members who is a very well-respected breeder here.

A quality breeder isn't location dependent. Their characteristics are the same everywhere.



We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.
What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that quality, conscientious breeders are always breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions but are flawless to us :).

It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from.
For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US and Canada. A bottom-line difference is between those who are breeding primarily for profit and those who are breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breeding's are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

About reviews,
a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance.
Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet".
Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pup's life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks.


Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum. The recommended testing by The Poodle Club of America is a mix of physical exams and, for each variety, there are also recommended DNA tests.

The OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) registers testing from other countries as well as from the US.

There are additional poodle specific DNA panels for other testable genetic conditions.
Those are companion tests with the OFA/CHIC testing, not in place of.

CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)
Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Toy Poodle recommended testing from the PCA with results listed on OFA
Miniature Poodle (just in case you expand your choices)
The PCA Foundation strongly recommends the DNA test for Miniature Poodle Dwarfism (Osteochondrodysplasia) to avoid breeding two carriers to each other and producing puppies affected with this deforming and crippling disorder. Research suggests that about 10 percent of Minis carry the mutation that causes this disease and that it is not limited to a few bloodlines.

The PRA test is a DNA test. The others are physical exams done by a qualified vet.
The DNA panels are nice and have helpful info but should not be accepted as the only health testing.

Standard Poodle

  • Hip Dysplasia (One of the following)
    OFA Evaluation
    PennHIP Evaluation
  • Eye Examination
    Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist
  • Health Elective (One of the following)
    OFA Thyroid evaluation from an approved laboratory
    OFA SA Evaluation from an approved dermapathologist
    Congenital Cardiac Exam
    Advanced Cardiac Exam
    Basic Cardiac Exam
The PCA Foundation recommends all three electives for Standard Poodles and also strongly recommends the following DNA tests from an OFA listed lab to easily avoid breeding two mutation carriers to each other and producing affected puppies: DNA Test for Neonatal Encephalopathy with Seizures (NEwS) and DNA Test for vonWillebrand’s Disease (vWD)


A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy
doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety recommended by the Poodle Club of America. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Read thru any contracts that may be listed.
If they rule out coverage for health conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times
and that wait is stretched well into 2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs, 9-5 paying job, and family, rather than keep a website updated.

When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies.
That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years. Most poodle colors fade.

Gender preferences will also limit your options.

Temperament and personality are lifelong traits.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are
those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience". A breeder using marketing terms like teacup, royal, giant don't really know poodles in relation to the breed standard. Pricing differently for size or color is also marketing.

Be wary of a breeder who sells a puppy with full registration rights
(
breeding rights which allow the next generation of pups to be registered with the AKC) simply for the price of admission. A responsible breeder will not allow their reputation and their poodles to be bred by anyone, to any dog, without having a contractual say in the breeding and the pups. They will want to be involved.

One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles.
That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.



As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred.


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time :)

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards physically and temperamentally and are sound by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


To start a search for a breeder, use the official Poodle Clubs first. PF has a lot of resources to view also, and individual recommendations will be made too. Compare those to the information above for a good shot at a quality, conscientious breeder and a happy, healthy poodle.

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A note on "Champion bloodlines" or variations of...

The phrase "Championship lines" is nearly meaningless unless, as Phaz23 points out, the dam and sire are the champions, and their dams and sires...

"Championship" counts in the conformation ring, to prove that each generation is meeting the breed standard. It's not a given, an inherent trait that gets passed down.

----

A quality conscientious breeder doesn't have to be a PCA member to follow the Code of Ethics. I believe that every breeder should.
Code of Ethics - The Poodle Club of America
 

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My $750 pet poodle cost me $25,000 in medical bills, I adored her but she lived a very short life passing away at 7 1/2.
My boy from one top show breeders in the U.S. cost me $2500, expensive at the time, is beautiful healthy and has a wonderful temperament, comes from 10 generations of champions and grand champions.
So no, just a pet poodle isn't enough, I cannot go through the heartbreak.
 
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