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Clean or Teddy face for Show/Breeding pup

  • Teddy Bear Face

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, we have one male left who is a show and breeding prospect (not advertising just looking for advice) and I told my mother (who owns the litter) that if we were going to sell him as a prospect, he needed to have a clean face so people could see his face formation. She then responded with, "But he's just a baby!" after that she refused to consider allowing me to do it. I am the only person who has seen Alberto's potential so I insisted that we list him as a prospect. This is not to say that he has very little potential, it's just that I am the only person interested in breeding for shows. Whenever I mention him going to a show home, my siblings and mother respond with, "Don't you want him to have a good home?". I am at my wit's end with arguing about whether or not show dogs are pets first and foremost. Do you have any ideas on how to convince them that Alberto has a bright future and he has a lot to give to the breed?
Dog Dog breed Carnivore Blue Liver
 

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It can be a lot of work keeping a poodle in a fluffy face. Owners who “only” want a pet may still want a clean face. That’s why these babies need a shave—to get introduced to the weird noises and sensations at a malleable age, so they are more comfortable with the process as adults. This is an important part of early socialization.

Is your mother at least running the non-blade end of some clippers over his face?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I know! The vet obviously had no experience with longer docks! In the last litter, there was a vet who used to work for a spoo breeder and he knew what he was doing. He did it perfectly, but my mother, who is used to the dam's short tail insisted that they were too long. No amount of arguing would change her mind. I am hoping to be a show breeder when I move out and I have been learning exactly what NOT to do from her. :mad::( I have been trying my best to convince her of some things but I got my stubbornness from her, so there has not been much change. I did convince her to do an Embark test on her, though the only motivation for that was the color genetics. She doesn't do X-Rays for the puppies or Patella Luxation or Hip Dysplasia. Although I believe Ginger's parents were. Ginger does produce some beautiful pups and she has better squareness than some Grand Champions I've seen. No, she is not. I am the person who grooms them, and lately, I've had a cold. I intend to do that, but I am wanting Alberto to go to a show home and so he ought to have a clean face.
 

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Thomas the Old Man, Ethel May, Jeffrey Steven
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Are you saying that your mother is breeding but not doing health tests on the parents and letting the puppy tails get docked too short? And if his tail is too short how would he succeed in the show world? Also he's going to need to be shaved eventually and it is better to start earlier than later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes, she is. We love our pups, and they are not abused but she is used to her parents breeding black toy poodles back in the days when people would drown kittens for fun. She believes Ginger is cute and would make cute pups, so she bred her. SMH!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
From what I can see, no points are taken off from a shorter or longer tail. It is mostly the tail set that matters. A larger pom on the tail would probably be ok for him. It is so sad to see my mother do this for money and kicks-and-giggles.
 

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I applaud you for wanting to do better for the breed. Family is tough. There is only so much you can push the people in your life to change.

Unfortunately I do not think this pup will be able to show with such a short tail. Even if points aren't taken off, short tails are an indicator of a poor background and therefore will be disfavored in the ring. But that doesn't mean he won't make a lovely pet or excel at companion sports.

I agree that shaving faces at a young age is very important to get pups used to grooming, so it would be good to do no matter what home he goes to.
 

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Leo (GSD), Lily (APBT), and Simon (SPoo)
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Sigh... Family can be hard to deal with when you and they have vastly different ideas about what constitutes good breeding practices.

Breeders usually start clipping faces and feet as early as four or five weeks, so that it's not a big deal for the puppies to be clipped when they go to their new homes. Even if the new owners want fuzzy faces and feet, having positive experiences with clippers at a young age is good.

Even fifty or sixty years ago, when tails were docked much shorter than they are today, his tail would probably be considered too short. Based on today's much longer docks, or even undocked tails, it's way too short, and he would have to be truly exceptional in every other aspect to overcome it in the conformation ring. Not saying he couldn't still finish with it being so short, just that it would be a long, uphill slog.

The fact that his dam (and I'm assuming) sire aren't fully health tested will probably turn off anyone looking for a show and/or breeding prospect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
It is actually a lot longer than it looks in the photo; it is almost to the base of his head. I have also considered selling him as an agility prospect because he is very smart and has tons of energy. Currently, he is digging and biting my laptop. I would really like to place him in a home that will do lots of sports with him. Thank you so much for being understanding about everything! I was this close to buying him from my mother to be able to make decisions and show him.
Dog Dog breed Carnivore Toy Liver
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This is off-topic, but do you know of any breeders around Southern Illinois? My parents have agreed to my doing a possible mentorship with someone. I have already contacted Natalie's Poodles, but they haven't responded. If I had a choice I would go with Danube Poodles but they are 5 hours away, so that is a no.
 

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Leo (GSD), Lily (APBT), and Simon (SPoo)
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So, I couldn't find any breeders on that website. Hoping to find a breeder from our local dog show this August. I was looking at the pups this morning and found that Alberto's two siblings both have underbites. This is the second time Ginger has produced underbites in some of her puppies. Will this maybe go away? They are both going to wonderful pet homes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
She has normally wonderful gait and angulation, but she decided to stack and gait like a GSD. If you have ever seen GSDs being shown then you know this is not a good thing for Poodles. No matter how hard I tried she was too stubborn and would not have any other way but to be left alone. So her show career was cut short.
 
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