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I found a breeder I like very much, but her miniature poodle female eye test is B, she was bred with a male tested A. How big is the possibility of the puppies eye problems?
 

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Optigen B means her bitch is a carrier of PRA (but not affected) while Optigen A means the stud is neither a carrier nor affected. Breeding an A to a B means half of the litter will be clear while the other half will be carriers, but none should be affected. So the chance of PRA is very low.
 

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So if you ended up with a carrier, you'd have to breed to an A in order to not have affected puppies or would you still end up with affected puppies if you had a carrier?
 

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So if you ended up with a carrier, you'd have to breed to an A in order to not have affected puppies or would you still end up with affected puppies if you had a carrier?
Both Bs (carriers) and Cs (affected) should always be bred to As. Cs to As would result in a litter full of carriers, while Bs to Bs or Bs to Cs or Cs to Cs will result in a mix of clears, carriers and affecteds or all affecteds depending on the combo.

The other thing all mini/ toy pup buyers have to keep in mind is that while Optigen is a fantastic tool, it only tests for the PRCD form of PRA. PRCD is the major form of PRA in poodles (up to 75%) but there is also another form that currently has no test. So while it's important to learn the Optigen scores and ensure that the breeding is designed to produce only Clears and Carriers, it's also important to know it's not a complete guarantee against PRA. Dogs should also be CERF tested yearly to test for any changes in the eye.

There's a chart here with more info: http://www.optigen.com/opt9_test_prcdprabs.html
 

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Wow Cdnjennga..... You've learned a lot in your puppy search. Well done! Now if we could only get everyone else to be as educated a buyer.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you so much Cdnjennga, you are really great :)
The whole story is, this breeder has two litters. 1. dam is a champion (very nice) she is the B carrier bred to a sire A. 2. dam and sire are A's, the sire is a champion. I know it will be safer to pick a puppy from the 2.litter, just the first is really beautiful. If you should make the decision what you will go with? I'm just trying not to make a mistake because I still don't know much :(
Thank you
 

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Thank you so much Cdnjennga, you are really great :)
The whole story is, this breeder has two litters. 1. dam is a champion (very nice) she is the B carrier bred to a sire A. 2. dam and sire are A's, the sire is a champion. I know it will be safer to pick a puppy from the 2.litter, just the first is really beautiful. If you should make the decision what you will go with? I'm just trying not to make a mistake because I still don't know much :(
Thank you
Based purely on Optigen info, I would say the two litters are equal. You just want a pet right? So it makes no difference to you if the dog is clear of PRA or a Carrier. The only way a Carrier can be an issue is if you have plans to breed - and even then you just have to be careful of who you plan to breed to. But that's just my opinion, others may have other opinions!

If I were in your shoes, I would look at other factors and make the decision on them (other health testing/ background, personality, gut instinct). :) Good luck, when will these little pups be ready?!?
 

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So does CERF cover both types of PRA? If you still need to CERF, then why bother w/ optigen?
Optigen is a genetic test. So theoretically the PRCD form of PRA (which is the cause of 75% of PRA) could eventually be completely eradicated by only breeding clears to clears. Dogs who are clear by parentage (so their parents were both Optigen A) do not need to be tested. So one day I guess there could be a day when Optigen is not required!

The CERF test is a physical exam of the eye. So while Optigen determines if they have a genetic risk of eye problems, the CERF actually tracks any changes in the eye over the course of the dog's life (or up until the age when eye problems usually show up.) Unless they can figure out a genetic test for every known eye disorder, dogs will always need to be CERF'd to check on the actual state of the eye. The problem with only CERFing is that signs of PRA might only show up later in the dog's life, after it has produced a number of litters.

PRA doesn't usually show up until later in the dog's life. So that's why the Optigen test is so great - it eliminates the major cause of PRA before the dog is even born! So like with everything, there's no guarantees, but responsible breeders will Optigen test their dogs (or know Optigen by parentage) AND CERF to give puppy buyers the best possible chance of getting a dog with problem free eyes.

Oh and this only applies to toys/ minis (as I'm sure you know). PRA is very, very rare in Standards. :)
 

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You're awesome! I didn't realize PRA wasn't a big problem w/ standard and you explained that perfectly! Thanks!
I should say PRCD PRA (which is tested by Optigen) is not a big problem for standards (or at least is has not been identified as a problem for standards as of yet)! So while Standards won't have an Optigen score like minis, toys, they should still be CERF'd for other eye problems.

From the Poodle Club of America

"Testing Standard Poodles for PRA
Because very few cases of PRA in Standard Poodles have come to the attention of researchers, the prcd-PRA marker test has not been examined for them. It’s likely that, if Standards have PRA, it would be one of the forms also present in Toys and Miniature. However, that hasn’t been proven as yet."

http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/healthpra.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #14
If I were in your shoes, I would look at other factors and make the decision on them (other health testing/ background, personality, gut instinct). :) Good luck, when will these little pups be ready?!?
Thank you :). The breeder sad all the health testings are clear (she will give me copies of the results), just the one bitch is tested Optigen B. One litter is three weeks old, one is just a week old, so I will go to see them in few weeks. She lives 3.5 hours away but I will go there at least twice and will take my friend (breeder) so she will help me with the other stuff. I just have good gut feeling about this breeder, she feeds organic kibble and raw food, she goes by holistic vet, and other things that I liked. So if everything will go OK :fingers-crossed: it will mean the end off search. I want also black boy, I don't want to breed, I want to show him, or at least do the obedience, .....
Cdnjennga I wish you good luck with your poodle :)
 
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