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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I’ve been researching a lot and talking to some breeders around the Ottawa region for a miniature poodle.. But when it comes to actually finalize I get over nervous and feel like I need to go back and do more research. This will be our first dog and we’re as excited as we are nervous.

So I’m writing here in the hopes that maybe some of you have experience with the breeders mentioned above either directly or indirectly. From my research they both seem like great responsible breeders but any sort of first or second hand experience would be super valuable to hear.

As this will be my first dog I’m also curious about whether I’m paying the right amount. Is 2500-3000CAD the normal range for miniatures? I don’t mind paying a high price for the right healthy dog from a responsible breeder. But I have no reference point to know if something is considered low mid or high. At what point is it too cheap I should be avoiding it or at what point is it too expensive that maybe I’m being ripped off due to my lack of knowledge of a price range? Please don’t feel like I’m shopping for a good deal. I’m really not. Im just looking for a baseline to understand what to expect.
 

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All good questions. You are right to look for a certain price range. Oddly, both low prices and high prices can be indicative of irresponsible breeders. I don't know about Canadian prices specifically, but if I do a simple conversion from US $ to CAD then I would expect 2500-4000 CAD. With the best titled lines being in the upper half of that. In the US, above that price makes me start to raise eyebrows.

Give us a little time to look into these breeders and I'm sure you'll get thorough analysis. In the meantime, I would suggest perusal of the vipoodle.org website. They have excellent info on how to evaluate breeders. Also the 🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩 thread has some excellent info as well.
 

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I have no experience with those two breeders. Spoos from good breeders in Ontario are usually 2000-2500, and I imagine that minis, with their smaller litter size may very well be more. So ballpark price sounds about right. I know both breeders are breeders I looked into and thought sounded good when I was considering mini vs standard.

Have you checked out the Ottawa Valley Poodle Club?
 

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All I can say is that the Enchantment Poodles website gave me serious puppy fever! I hope you'll share your puppy journey with us.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Give us a little time to look into these breeders and I'm sure you'll get thorough analysis. In the meantime, I would suggest perusal of the vipoodle.org website.
This is a great resource. I love the little questionnaire they have for asking breeders. Thank you for sharing these.

I know both breeders are breeders I looked into and thought sounded good when I was considering mini vs standard.

Have you checked out the Ottawa Valley Poodle Club?
I did in fact check out the poodle club of canada and found some breeder names from there. It’s reassuring to know these came up in your research as well and that you thought they were potentially good breeders to choose from. Who did you end up going with if I may ask? Do you have any recommendations from the rest of Ontario?

All I can say is that the Enchantment Poodles website gave me serious puppy fever! I hope you'll share your puppy journey with us.
haha. I’ve caught the disease too! I can’t wait to share everything too. But I’m forcing myself to be slow and patient with this process. :)
 

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Ok I have had some time to look through the websites and will give my impressions.

Glow seems like a top quality breeder. When I look at their pedigree I see lots of dogs from very high quality breeders. They seem to put a lot of effort into raising well socialized puppies. They do have a lot of dogs listed, but it seems many of these don't live with them and are co-owned or fostered. So the number they care for seems manageable. It I seems that many of their dogs are trained in agility which is cool. I do see two things of minor concern, but I would not say they are red flags.

First, I think I see seven litters for 2020 which seems like kind of a high number but also if they are spaced out well it's manageable. And possibly some are cared for by co-owners. Also these are minis which typically have smaller litters so it is not the same as seven litters of standards. Still just seeing the list makes me feel tired!

Second, is their record keeping for health testing seems lacking. But the wording on the website makes me think they probably have completed the testing and just haven't displayed it on the website or on OFA. Some of the dogs are really thoroughly tested with results uploaded to OFA. Others have only hips and patellas. Others don't even show up when I search. This is not overly concerning given the impression from the website, but I would definitely ask for documentation of health tests for any dogs that have not had their CHIC recommended tests uploaded to OFA.

Lastly, I don't see a link to the actual puppy contract but it sounds fairly usual for good breeders based on what they say. They do say they require spay&neuter but only after completion of growth which I find reasonable.

Side note: I'm incredibly amazed by their side business selling dog clothes & underwear! Love it.

On to Enchantment Poodles...

Enchantment seems like a good breeder based on the limited information available on their website, but they don't have enough details for me to really investigate.

My efforts included looking for their dogs on OFA... nothing. Though they talk about health testing on their website so probably they're just not using OFA.
I noticed their website doesn't seem updated much lately, so I went to their facebook. They are certainly more active on facebook. Looks like their dogs do well in conformation. Unfortunately I can't really give much of a review. You'll have to ask for details from them. Specifically I would want to examine requirements on their health guarantee as they mention a diet requirement. Also I would want to see expectations for spay&neuter. And of course health testing documentation. They give little info on how the pups are raised as well, though the little they do say seems fine. Possibly I'd get more info if I keep looking through old facebook posts but my internet has been too poor for that lately.
 

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Ok I have had some time to look through the websites and will give my impressions. Glow seems like a top quality breeder. When I look at their pedigree I see lots of dogs from very high quality breeders... Side note: I'm incredibly amazed by their side business selling dog clothes & underwear! Love it.
Nice assessment of both breeders, and Poodles Glow has a sense of humor. I burst out laughing when I saw her custom made dominatrix period panties with matching booties! 😂



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I did in fact check out the poodle club of canada and found some breeder names from there. It’s reassuring to know these came up in your research as well and that you thought they were potentially good breeders to choose from. Who did you end up going with if I may ask? Do you have any recommendations from the rest of Ontario?
I ended up deciding to get a standard as they fit my life better so didnt do much further mini research :)

I highly recommend Rose n poos' thread, the Ontario section should have a few more breeders.
I found when I looked that the Ottawa Valley Poodle club, Ontario Poodle club, and Canadian poodle club all seem to have a few different breeders - no idea why, maybe there is politics going on.
 

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I'm impressed by this: Note: We DO NOT breed or support and condone the breeding of poodle crosses so if you are looking for a poodle cross, please DO NOT contact us. A “Goldendoodle, Labradoodle, Shih-poo, and such are not breeds, they are mutts, mixed breeds. Please do not be fooled by these so called breeders that tell you they are a “new breed” and be taken for quite an unrealistic amount of money.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ok I have had some time to look through the websites and will give my impressions.
Okay wow..This is amazing! Thank you for taking the time to look into them in depth.. I really appreciate it. Its great to have another perspective. I'm also just really impressed by the amount of extra information youve been able to extract from the same pages ive been looking at :D Gives me a better idea of all the little things i should be paying close attention to. I've learned a few things. Thank you for that.

Nice assessment of both breeders, and Poodles Glow has a sense of humor.
I did not see this before.. but it is hilarios.

I highly recommend Rose n poos' thread, the Ontario section should have a few more breeders.
This was my first source along with the list on CKC and Ottawa valley poodle club. Theyre really great to have. I guess i understand they cant really endorse one over the other if theyre all members and such... which is why im finding this platform amazing where i can ask people opinions and feedback. Its great to have someone look over the breeders I've shortlisted to make sure I havent missed anything obvious and such. I'm lovin it here so far. Thank you for sharing these! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I would definitely ask for documentation of health tests for any dogs that have not had their CHIC recommended tests uploaded to OFA
This might be a silly question but is CHIC primarily a US thing or is it used as a common standard for testing across breeders in both US and Canada?
 

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This might be a silly question but is CHIC primarily a US thing or is it used as a common standard for testing across breeders in both US and Canada?
I don't think it's specific to the U.S. but I don't know if there is a difference in use of the OFA registry by U.S. vs Canadian breeders. I know Arreau definitely uses it and has most dogs CHIC certified (she's a member here) and she's in Canada. CHIC is simply a shorthand way of telling if they've completed the minimal recommended tests for the given breed. Usually breeders will include additional tests that aren't CHIC required, especially genetic tests. The requirements for CHIC are set by the breed parent clubs but I do not know if that includes clubs from Canada. However, I looked at the Poodle Club of Canada site on health info and they link to OFA and Optigen and the Poodle Health Registry... which are the same things used in the U.S. so I don't think it's different.
 

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Sadly I haven’t had a lot of luck with successful communication with my original choice of breeders. It’s really unfortunate cos I actually really liked them. :( I’m not gonna force them or be a pest. I know I need to move on.

This has forced me to look around some more this time and I came across this breeder who in theory looks great. Her website is not functional but she’s pretty active and regular on her Facebook page. They’re called Poodle Puddle from Ontario. The about page on her Facebook has some details. But I was wondering if I could maybe borrow another set of eyes to see if there were anyobvious red flags I’m missing here?
 

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Sadly I haven’t had a lot of luck with successful communication with my original choice of breeders. It’s really unfortunate cos I actually really liked them. :( I’m not gonna force them or be a pest. I know I need to move on.

This has forced me to look around some more this time and I came across this breeder who in theory looks great. Her website is not functional but she’s pretty active and regular on her Facebook page. They’re called Poodle Puddle from Ontario. The about page on her Facebook has some details. But I was wondering if I could maybe borrow another set of eyes to see if there were anyobvious red flags I’m missing here?
Sorry you're having a tough time getting in contact with the other breeders. I wouldn't give up hope. Sometimes they are very busy and put off replying until they have time to answer questions.

I looked into Poodle Puddle... and again I will try my best here but this one is testing the limits of my researching abilities.

So Poodle Puddle seems to not be their kennel name. I believe they go by the kennel name Honey Bear. They don't refer to their dogs by their registered name and it seems that many of the registered names don't sync up with their call names so I am having a tough time looking for some of the info. They don't seem to have a dedicated website which significantly hinders the review I can do.

Health testing is a potential concern. They do seem to have many (or all?) of their dogs tested for hips, elbows, patellas, and legg-calve-perthes. What I'm not seeing is a genetic test for progressive retinal atrophy or an eye exam. Both of these are CHIC required so I would at least like to see them completed for the majority of dogs. Just because they aren't on OFA doesn't mean they haven't been completed. But it's something you'd want to consult the breeder about.

Here's the OFA results for all of the dogs their kennel has produced that are in the OFA database

Another thing that the OFA list makes me want to know is about the size designations on their poodles. Some on OFA are listed as miniatures, some just as "poodle" and a couple as toys. I do not know if they breed both toys and miniatures or if they are doing inter variety breedings. Inter variety breedings are not ideal for reasons that could be discussed. But I'm not saying that's the case... I don't know and can't tell.

They do seem to show some of their dogs in conformation. That is a good thing.

I would want to know more info on their puppy contract and how puppies are raised and how they are paired with owners. They seem to do a lot of unusual color breedings, and with these breedings I often see pups paired with owners based solely on sex and color rather than temperament which is ideal. So it may be something you want to question about if temperament is your top priority.

It's late so I'm calling a halt to my googling. My general viewpoint on this breeder is moderately positive but guarded given the lack of information.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I looked into Poodle Puddle... and again I will try my best here but this one is testing the limits of my researching abilities.
wow I cannot thank you enough. I was also struggling to find relevant info about them as they were not listed on the CKC website or other poodle clubs i looked at even though on their page its mentioned about their affiliations with those.. and with no website they sure arent making it easy for people to find them.. But the reviews i see on fb looks great but im always cautious about those without verifying in some other way as well. Health is definitely the top concern for me cos if im getting a dog I'd want them to outlive me if they can. :D

Also i dont know if its a Canadian thing or not. But almost every dog ive looked up on OFA (from different breeders) so far only have 1 or 2 tests mentioned in there.. 3 if im lucky. Usually just Hips and Patellas.. and thats it. Not sure why this is commonly the case.
 

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wow I cannot thank you enough. I was also struggling to find relevant info about them as they were not listed on the CKC website or other poodle clubs i looked at even though on their page its mentioned about their affiliations with those.. and with no website they sure arent making it easy for people to find them.. But the reviews i see on fb looks great but im always cautious about those without verifying in some other way as well. Health is definitely the top concern for me cos if im getting a dog I'd want them to outlive me if they can. :D

Also i dont know if its a Canadian thing or not. But almost every dog ive looked up on OFA (from different breeders) so far only have 1 or 2 tests mentioned in there.. 3 if im lucky. Usually just Hips and Patellas.. and thats it. Not sure why this is commonly the case.
It could be a Canadian thing. I have no idea. You may be able to ask the Canadian poodle club about it. I know the U.S. tends to lead in health testing but I thought Canada was similar.
 

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Good sleuthing! I found the Honey Bears Sunshine of Ur Luv reference on the FB page. That kennel name does get hits on OFA.

Is this the website you found?

Debbie/Deborah Hoskin seems to be the breeder's name connected to Poodle Puddle.
I also found this listing which just grazes on the health guarantee and no idea why it does on that site.

About and Description

Passionate poodle fancier. Breeding for exceptional beauty, health and intelligent parti, phantoms and red poodles in Belleville Ontario. Puppies have a 3 year genetic health guarantee from health tested parents.

There's also this from the CKC breeder referral pdf list

Hoskin, Deborah thepoodlepuddle.com [email protected]
 

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Good sleuthing! I found the Honey Bears Sunshine of Ur Luv reference on the FB page. That kennel name does get hits on OFA.

Is this the website you found?

Debbie/Deborah Hoskin seems to be the breeder's name connected to Poodle Puddle.
I also found this listing which just grazes on the health guarantee and no idea why it does on that site.

About and Description

Passionate poodle fancier. Breeding for exceptional beauty, health and intelligent parti, phantoms and red poodles in Belleville Ontario. Puppies have a 3 year genetic health guarantee from health tested parents.

There's also this from the CKC breeder referral pdf list

Hoskin, Deborah thepoodlepuddle.com [email protected]
I don't know how you found that website! I looked all over for one. The one linked on the Poodle Puddle facebook page came up blank. That should be very helpful as it looks like there's at least a bit more info. They do mention PRA testing and eyes for some of the poodles on that site, which is very good to see.
 

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Once I start finding small bits of info I toss it into the search title. Adding her name didn't get it but this phrase did:
" poodle puddle ontario honey bear's"

I was happy to see eye testing mention, too, as well as a few registered names to match other info to.
 
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