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Discussion Starter #1
well dang, one of my best clients learned that I cannot always work miricales. Super Groomer Failure...

I have been dematting and clipping this dog for over a year now, we grew him out super long but his coat is so soft and cotton like that his mom was having a difficult time keeping it brushed out. The result had me doing two or three hours of dematting, which I just don't do for every client. I feel like it's mean to the dog. No only was it unfair to me and the poor dog but the constant dematting was changing the haircut in spite of my efforts to save every last strand of hair. The rosetts on the hips gradually moved further and further backwards and the bracelets also got lower. The topknot, whew, that was a complete mess. We had it tied up but it was always one huge matt when he came in for grooming which caused hair loss right in the middle of his head. Nice. It made things difficult for a while when she decided a scissored topknot would be best. Because of the big hole up there it was almost impossiable for me to get that super soft hair of his to stand.
Anyway it was decided it would be best to maintain in int he neighborhood of three or four inches max to make brushing easier.

photo of that first shorter version of the clip


That did the trick for the most part and he hasn't been matted since the end of Novemeber. Not to mention looking a whole lot better. ( modifications are made to the placement of his jacket because he's a pet and his momma didn't want to deal with him pee'ing on his coat *eye roll* silly dog! so ignore that)

There was still the problem of the rosetts now being way to far back on the hips. Reluctantly she gave me permission to shave them off and start over.



this photo was taken the month after I clipped them off. Here I reset them into bigger than I needed squares so that they could grow out and be easier for me to round off.

This dog is normaly in every three weeks for grooming at my request. He's been soooo much easier to maintian now that he's shorter buuutttt things happen and even the shorter coat will matt terriably if it isn't brushed. That's exactly what happened. His momma called two weeks ago saying she was sooo sorry but she had forgotten to call and make his next appointment and now it would have to wait because she was going out of town on business for two weeks in the morning and what did I suggest she do about the matted coat until then. Her husband doesn't seem to be especialy fond of the dog and refuses to brush him at all in momma's absence.

He was in on Tuesday and by then was to far gone for me to save his coat. She gave permission to do whatever, as she always does when he's matted... I think she expected me to be able to pull off a save as I have always done in the past but not today :( I almost cried but had no choice other than to shave the matted areas out and hope for the best. As it was it took almost an hour to get them off with a #4 blade since so long as it wasn't causing him pain I was determined to leave the coat as long as I could. I was able to demat the back of his neck and so leave a crest to give the illision of more neck and coat lenght, that made me happy at least.



I'm not the biggest fan of these results buuttt he won't be matted for a looonng while. I'll also loose a huge bit of my income for that period of time as well since obviously I can't charge her the normal price to maintain him...

As stupid as it looks I didn't dare touch those braceletts, she is in love with them it was going to be enough of a shock to see him so short as it was. I also didn't touch the rosettes other than to begin rounding them. Guess I was trying to soften the blow.

Stay tuned, I'll post pics as the trim grows out and gets back to looking like it's supposed to.
 

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Wow interesting. I can't imagine keeping a dog in that clip especially my 2 roughians.
I like managable yet poodlish to. I get comments alot about seeing poodle in poodle clips as most just shave them off now.
I also had a guy tell us he rescues his boy from a life of goofy haircuts LOL yep he was shave witha 4 maybe all over YUCK to me. I like a little style
 

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I actually think he looks more elegant in his shorter clip. I'm sure his momma will be disappointed, but really, if you can't keep up with the longer cuts, I don't understand why you put yourself and your dog through that. I feel bad enough when I have to comb out those small, inevitable mats.
 

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But wait - what did the mom say when she came to pick him up? I feel like a big "to be continued" flashed at the end of your post! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
But wait - what did the mom say when she came to pick him up? I feel like a big "to be continued" flashed at the end of your post! :)
LoL, She was upset but understanding. In past visits she's come in almost in tears saying, "Oh god, you're going to have to shave hi...." I've always been able to demat with minimal clipping.

I think this time when I actualy DID cut him short was probably a huge shock to her. She understood though and was grateful that I didn't clip him any shorter than I did. She understood that there was a ton of dematting that had to happen before I could commit to leaving it as long as it is now.
She tipped me really well though and said she would be back in three weeks... probably she won't miss her appt's anymore for a while?? I bet she went home and cried but I hope not :(
 

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Oh, boy! Now that is different. I think you did a great job considering what you had to deal with. Jeesh, if you aren't committed to maintaining a coat like that, you should just let the dog be a dog in something easier for both. I would be embarrassed to bring a poodle in that was that kind of a mess.

I'm working on a puppy show coat on Billy right now and am going to give showing a try. If it doesn't work out, he is going to be cut into something that is reasonable for the summer and easy for me to care for.

It looks like you are really good at what you do!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Oh, boy! Now that is different. I think you did a great job considering what you had to deal with.

It looks like you are really good at what you do!
Thankyou spoospirit, thats always a nice thing to hear.


Adian, I agree, a 4 was a little generous... I didn't tell the whole story though, it's actualy longer than the finished length of a 4 blade. I used to 4 to rough in and his coat was so oily from the stuff she had in it that it left it left it much longer in a lot of places. After the bath, I cheated and took scissors and just blended the uneven parts to keep as much hair as possible. You can't tell right now, but it's going to look odd when it starts growing back in which is ok because he's in so often that I can just keep scissoring and shaping and it will be even again without me having to go shorter.

Haha, I guess I jinxed myself with the conversation we had the other night about not dematting. Truth be told... I was just as upset at the idea of shaving him as she was. I didn't want to throw over a year's worth of work down the drain especialy since it wasn't 100% her fault being out of town and such. Stil though, I had already decided that I wouldn't demat him again, even if it wasn't terribly bad. He used to take up my entire day and ummm a 7hour groom is a bit much for anyone. Even a dog like him who LOVES his grooming sessions.

She said she was considering re-homing him because she is frustrated with him and some of his training. He probably isn't a canadate for therapy work, at least not right now, and really that was her big goal for him. Now he's two years old and still a big 'ol 75lb puppy. Holy cow though, what a performance dog he would be!! I don't think she realizes what she's got, I would take him in a heartbeat, John might divorce me... but thats ok LoL. He is super hyper and a bit out of control in public but wow... really a trainer's dream! His owner reccently got married and changed jobs and went back to school and she doesn't have as much time to work with him as she thought she would. Really a shame, I know he's like a HUGE part of her life and she loves him to death. It would kill her to give him up. If she get's serious about rehoming him though (and I doubt that she will) I'll be first in line and screw the four dog limit I've set myself LoL.
 

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I think the owner should let that dog grow his hair back EVERYWHERE! Its a flash back of what Eli looked like in the cont clip and it didn't look good. Im not talking about the clip you did Wonderpup, Im meaning how the dog wears the clip. Thats one thing about the continental clip, if you dont got it, you can certainly see you dont got it.

P.S. I like the front puff's...good job rounding those babies.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ha! I hate those braceletts!!! What a pain in the you know what those damn things are!!

LoL, Jen you're funny... I think we'd better keep that between us though. His owner would probably cut my head off if I suggested such a thing. She knew she wanted to keep her dog in that cut before she ever laid eyes on him. Ironicly the first time we put it on him she wanted the bare butt version, no rosettes. I set them on the dog just for giggles to see if I could do it and had every intention of shaving them off. After I was finished though, I called her and convienced her to just look at it with the rosetts because I thought it would look more balanced with them. She ended up loving them and really missed him when we took them off.

Question for you jen, what is it about the way he looks you don't like? What makes him wear the style poorly? I ask because you never know, I might be able to alter it and in it's current state now is the time.
Are you sure the modifications are what you don't like? I think the clip makes him look longer in body than he is. (it also makes him look fat, but shhh I didn't say that). He isn't long really, he's higher on leg than he is long. His jacket isn't set correctly, it's pretty far forward of the last rib. I wish I could move it back but I have to do what she wants... and I don't feel like working with pee soaked hair either so the current placement is a benifit for me too lol.
 

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Ha! I hate those braceletts!!! What a pain in the you know what those damn things are!!

LoL, Jen you're funny... I think we'd better keep that between us though. His owner would probably cut my head off if I suggested such a thing. She knew she wanted to keep her dog in that cut before she ever laid eyes on him. Ironicly the first time we put it on him she wanted the bare butt version, no rosettes. I set them on the dog just for giggles to see if I could do it and had every intention of shaving them off. After I was finished though, I called her and convienced her to just look at it with the rosetts because I thought it would look more balanced with them. She ended up loving them and really missed him when we took them off.

Question for you jen, what is it about the way he looks you don't like? What makes him wear the style poorly? I ask because you never know, I might be able to alter it and in it's current state now is the time.
Are you sure the modifications are what you don't like? I think the clip makes him look longer in body than he is. (it also makes him look fat, but shhh I didn't say that). He isn't long really, he's higher on leg than he is long. His jacket isn't set correctly, it's pretty far forward of the last rib. I wish I could move it back but I have to do what she wants... and I don't feel like working with pee soaked hair either so the current placement is a benifit for me too lol.


What I can tell right off is;

He has a low tail set, he is long (legged and body) over angelated and Im not a fan of his head. I think its the lack of top skull, it really throw's his head off.

The only things that I think need adjusting slightly is the jacket (grow it back) and the rear puffs (or ancklets) need to be trimmed on a angle on the front of the rear leg and taken down slightly to add balance and compliment the front puffs. The ear hair also taken up slightly to match the coat length.

Please dont get angry about my opinion on the clip. I personally dont care for the conformation of the dog. For a continental clip to look good in my opinion the dogs needs to be correct (as much as possible). However, if the owner loves her dog in the cont clip, then more power to her. Its just my opinion and what I would personally change on the clip.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Jen, I ment to post yesterday with a big ol' THANKYOU!! That dog's owner thinks he *the* poodle even though he isn't a show dog. I don't think she realizes it but she makes really offensive comments about my dogs every time she comes in. She's kind of hurt my feelings a couple of times LoL. When I first got Jazz right off the bat she wasn't good enough because she was cream colored. Then she was to small, she isn't as tall as her dog. She pointed to him and said, "now he's a real poodle". Yeah ok... Then she pointed at Jazz's tail and said it was to long and asked why it hadn't been docked. Jazz's tail IS docked, but it's docked correctly (in my opinion).

She's only seen Saleen once but again before I even brought her home she made a comment on her color. I told her Saleen was Silver and she made a weird face and said 'awww thats to bad...." To bad?? TO BAD?? Excuse me?? You know how many peole would kill for a silver standard? When she saw Saleen in person out of her kennel last week she made a comment that she was really long... That sort of brought me up short, now I've been eyeballing her for the last few days thinking... she isn't to long.... and anyway she's FOUR months old, she's growing faster in some places than in others.

I'm thinking to myself Hey! I don't point out what I don't like about your dog and how you handle him :(

Anyway, I printed your reply and took it to work with me. Next time she makes a comment I will have it to look back on when she leaves and have a little chuckle to myself.
 

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Aw, well don't let her bring you down about your dogs if she can't even manage to brush hers! I think you were nice to not just shave the dog down, I would have!

I think Jazz and Saleen are beautiful! Isn't Jazz a rescue as well? It makes her all the more special.

I actually like the creme colored standards. I ALMOST picked Vega's brother when I was looking for my puppy but when I actually went to meet the puppies this little blue one just would not leave me alone. He kept crawling all over me and licking my face so he picked me.

This is Vega's brother! Isn't he handsome! I can't believe someone hasn't grabbed him up yet.
 

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Having my own business, I sympathize with you. Clients can be incredibly rude, offensive, and even mean sometimes. You still have to smile and be nice. However, you don't have to let someone like that take you down. You are a much better person than she by a long shot. So, let it run off your back like water off a duck. Sometimes I really dislike how hard I can be because of nasty clients just to protect my personal feelings. It's easy to let them jade you. It's much harder to be better than they are.
 

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Vega's brother would be almost 5 months now, she has two left from his same litter the creme-parti and another blue mismark who was also the runt of the litter.

http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc127/jagirard/Haley Pups/Red Boy/?action=view&current=tiny0411-1.flv - a video of Tiny-Tot, that's what the breeder has named him.

I agree about not letting people get you down, it happens a lot. I try let it go in one ear and out the other but it is hard sometimes. Jazz and Saleen are amazing looking dogs!
 

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LoL, I'm not going to let her bother me, usually I just smile or play it off like yeah well she's a rescue or yeah well thats a puppy for you.

I did slip up in one of the tail conversations,(she mentions tails a lot), and told her her boy's tail was a little on the short side, which it is. Actualy it's really short, not sure if it shows in the pictures.

Now I'm all paranoid about Saleen though, I am trying to resist the temptation to get exact measurements. I keep reminding myself that she is a baby so stop looking at her! I didnt get her to show, I got her to be a playmate with Jazz and do obedience... which is a lot more than the poor dog in the pictures gets to do :(
 

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Wow you don't need a client who has the ignorance of that to bash your dogs. Cripes if she thought that to herself is one thing to say it out loud is another.

I have seen a couple poodles and just go on about how pretty they are when petting them and walk away thinking ew you dirty thing you need a bath brush and poodlefeet he he he.

This lady sounds like a wack job. Seleen is a pretty little thing and yes GROWING she will end up odd shapes for quite some time ( not that I see in pictures just know growing puppies) I remember my mastiff growing simetimes he was high in back end sometimes front sometimes looked like a dane.
ugggggggg people bug me some days

Heck print out the other post and shove it in her face next time she rips your dogs apart tell her what a breeder thinks of her precious spoo
 

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Now I'm all paranoid about Saleen though, I am trying to resist the temptation to get exact measurements. I keep reminding myself that she is a baby so stop looking at her! I didnt get her to show, I got her to be a playmate with Jazz and do obedience... which is a lot more than the poor dog in the pictures gets to do :(
You know very well you can't trust puppy bodies. Graham looked like a puppy labradoodle when he was going through the uglies, he was all legs and no coat. Even if you are planning on getting paranoid, wait till she has a chance to grow up at least :p
 
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