Poodle Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We've been sadly struggling with our puppy having entropion in both eyes for the past 5 months. He's 11 months old now. He's been through a lot - dozens of vet visits, seeing specialists, emergency visits. He's had two surgeries so far and likely needs a third in about 2 weeks. He's been wearing a cone for about a month now. Endless cycles of meds, eye drops, etc. Lots and lots of money.

I contacted the breeder and she said none of the other 7 puppies from the litter had this. I guess we're just really unlucky? I was wondering whether this is a genetic condition? Or is it random/developmental? I'm just curious because I've heard this is a common issue for poodles and I'm wondering if it's a reason to warn people against getting a poodle -- or at least a poodle from this breeder, should they ask.

It's been so hard dealing with both his behavioral and health problems, I can't say I've enjoyed the puppy time at all. Hoping he's at least healthy before Christmas!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,085 Posts
I'm so sorry to hear that your family and pup are dealing with this. I'd never heard of it before, with 7 poodles thru my life and a few years here at PF, so I can't say without researching how often it might happen, but it sounds so painful. I also hope you get resolution soon.

I found this information in an online medical journal, for starters, stating that there can be a genetic component, but it doesn't seem to be only genetic. Unfortunately, if it is genetic, the mutation/s don't seem to have been identified yet since I can't find any test for it on several of the genetic testing lab sites.

For treatment and recovery, it sounds like corneal scarring is what should be avoided for best surgical result.


I just did a Search here on PF but haven't looked thru these threads and posts.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Faust

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm so sorry to hear that your family and pup are dealing with this. I'd never heard of it before, with 7 poodles thru my life and a few years here at PF, so I can't say without researching how often it might happen, but it sounds so painful. I also hope you get resolution soon.

I found this information in an online medical journal, for starters, stating that there can be a genetic component, but it doesn't seem to be only genetic. Unfortunately, if it is genetic, the mutation/s don't seem to have been identified yet since I can't find any test for it on several of the genetic testing lab sites.

For treatment and recovery, it sounds like corneal scarring is what should be avoided for best surgical result.


I just did a Search here on PF but haven't looked thru these threads and posts.

Thanks! That's very interesting!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
We've been sadly struggling with our puppy having entropion in both eyes for the past 5 months. He's 11 months old now. He's been through a lot - dozens of vet visits, seeing specialists, emergency visits. He's had two surgeries so far and likely needs a third in about 2 weeks. He's been wearing a cone for about a month now. Endless cycles of meds, eye drops, etc. Lots and lots of money.

I contacted the breeder and she said none of the other 7 puppies from the litter had this. I guess we're just really unlucky? I was wondering whether this is a genetic condition? Or is it random/developmental? I'm just curious because I've heard this is a common issue for poodles and I'm wondering if it's a reason to warn people against getting a poodle -- or at least a poodle from this breeder, should they ask.

It's been so hard dealing with both his behavioral and health problems, I can't say I've enjoyed the puppy time at all. Hoping he's at least healthy before Christmas!
My sister is a very talented veterinary ophthalmologist. I will ask her your questions and see what she says. I hope you and the pup will get some relief!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Its a phenotype disease - meaning it will go unnoticed and without symptoms in a line of dogs (with or without health testing) and will randomly pop up at any given time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Faust

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Here’s what my veterinary ophthalmologist sister had to say: ”It isn’t hereditary. It is related to skull size and how the eyes sit in the socket. We see it mainly in males, and in the poodle mainly in standards. It does usually need surgical correction.”

I hope this is useful!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,082 Posts
My neighbors Portuguese Water Dog had surgery to repair hers (1 eye). The surgery went well, dog has no more problems and you have to look extremely close and know where to look to see the tiny scar. I don’t know what kind she had. I hope surgery allows your dog to a free of problems.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Faust

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Its a phenotype disease - meaning it will go unnoticed and without symptoms in a line of dogs (with or without health testing) and will randomly pop up at any given time.
a
Here’s what my veterinary ophthalmologist sister had to say: ”It isn’t hereditary. It is related to skull size and how the eyes sit in the socket. We see it mainly in males, and in the poodle mainly in standards. It does usually need surgical correction.”

I hope this is useful!
Interesting - yes my dog is a male. Thanks for asking!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Its a phenotype disease - meaning it will go unnoticed and without symptoms in a line of dogs (with or without health testing) and will randomly pop up at any given time.
Ah ok so I suppose it could pop back up in one of the other puppies if they carry it... such a shame. We weren't planning on showing or breeding him but now those things are impossible even if we wanted to, which is kind of sad that its no longer a possibility even.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Ah ok so I suppose it could pop back up in one of the other puppies if they carry it... such a shame. We weren't planning on showing or breeding him but now those things are impossible even if we wanted to, which is kind of sad that its no longer a possibility even.
I'd be suprised if none of the other puppies where also affected. All of the puppies in the litter are carriers. If bred- they'll pass on offspring with ectroption.

hope your breeder doesn't do a repeat. for a offspring to be affected, one of the sire or dam has to affected too - just maybe not showing symptoms yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My neighbors Portuguese Water Dog had surgery to repair hers (1 eye). The surgery went well, dog has no more problems and you have to look extremely close and know where to look to see the tiny scar. I don’t know what kind she had. I hope surgery allows your dog to a free of problems.
I'd be suprised if none of the other puppies where also affected. All of the puppies in the litter are carriers. If bred- they'll pass on offspring with ectroption.

hope your breeder doesn't do a repeat. for a offspring to be affected, one of the sire or dam has to affected too - just maybe not showing symptoms yet.
Hmm I wonder! I guess it’s possible someone didn’t report their issue with one of the puppies to the breeder. His problem was bad enough that they did surgery before he was even fully grown and in both eyes bc they were so irritated it couldn’t wait. I am pretty sure neither parent had an issue or they wouldn’t be allowed to show - and both do. And they’re not very young dogs.. or can it show up later in adult dogs? Or am I wrong and ppl still show dogs even if they’ve had surgery? The breeder is very conscientious and her family have been breeding this line of standards for 3 generations so I doubt the issue came from her dog - but who knows?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,003 Posts
Ah ok so I suppose it could pop back up in one of the other puppies if they carry it... such a shame. We weren't planning on showing or breeding him but now those things are impossible even if we wanted to, which is kind of sad that its no longer a possibility even.
As other members have noted (including one who consulted a veterinary ophthalmologist ), it's not necessarily genetic. I would recommend seeking out studies and professional advice for any lingering questions you may have. But since you mentioned you've had behavioural issues with your pup, I would assume breeding would have already been off the table.

I'm sorry this first year with your puppy has been so tough. :( Hoping the next surgery gets him back on track. I know entropian can be extremely painful, and all these vet visits are probably very stressful (for both of you!), too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
As other members have noted (including one who consulted a veterinary ophthalmologist ), it's not necessarily genetic. I would recommend seeking out studies and professional advice for any lingering questions you may have. But since you mentioned you've had behavioural issues with your pup, I would assume breeding would have already been off the table.

I'm sorry this first year with your puppy has been so tough. :( Hoping the next surgery gets him back on track. I know entropian can be extremely painful, and all these vet visits are probably very stressful (for both of you!), too.
Thank you for reiterating that it is NOT genetic. I spoke with my sister again (board certified veterinary othalmologist for 30+ years) and she said that multiple factors can cause it, but it has less to do with the eyes and more to do with the skull conformation and how the eyes sit in the sockets. She also said that it typically emerges from unresolved conjunctivitis that persists over a period of time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thank you for reiterating that it is NOT genetic. I spoke with my sister again (board certified veterinary othalmologist for 30+ years) and she said that multiple factors can cause it, but it has less to do with the eyes and more to do with the skull conformation and how the eyes sit in the sockets. She also said that it typically emerges from unresolved conjunctivitis that persists over a period of time.
Interesting... my dog never had conjunctivitis as far as I know. But then I guess it was fairly obvious from the start that his eyelids were rolling in. It just started with really watery eyes but the vet said it didn't really seem infected just really irritated but I did have me give him antibacterial drops for a while anyway. As he grew it got worse and he started getting gloopy discharge from the irritation. She referred me to the eye specialist after about 2 months of trying to alleviate the irritation and rule out infection. The eye vet at the hospital immediately decided for surgery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Description "An inherited inward rolling of the eyelids due to genetic weakness in eyelid structure. This condition can be cured with surgery.

Type: Phenotype. There is no genetic test available for this disease. Diagnosis is by physical exam only
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Interesting... my dog never had conjunctivitis as far as I know. But then I guess it was fairly obvious from the start that his eyelids were rolling in. It just started with really watery eyes but the vet said it didn't really seem infected just really irritated but I did have me give him antibacterial drops for a while anyway. As he grew it got worse and he started getting gloopy discharge from the irritation. She referred me to the eye specialist after about 2 months of trying to alleviate the irritation and rule out infection. The eye vet at the hospital immediately decided for surgery.
This seems consistent with everything my sister described and she too said that surgery is usually needed. It does sound as if your veterinarian referred to the eye specialist more speedily than many veterinarians would have, in her experience. I hope the surgery goes well!
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top