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All I ever see is the Continental Cut, which I do not find anywhere near as elegant and flattering as the English Saddle. My handle is blakeenfan because my all time favorite show dog is Blakeen Duc de la Terrace, closely followed by Blakeen Eiger and some of the old Bibelot dogs. I'd like to show my (still in the future) Standard in the English Saddle Cut but am worried about him or her being discriminated against. I'd love to hear from any other English Saddle fans out there currently showing in this trim. One other comment: I've noticed that all you ever see at the big shows are black or white poodles. I'm brand new to this breed so forgive my ignorance.
 

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I can't speak to showing your poodle in the E.S. trim, but I can agree with you that I love it. I put my girl in a modified version of it a couple of months ago and LOVED it.
http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=1062

Of course I had a moment of insanity at work a while back and decided I would like less hair. Soooo I attempted to try and shorten the overall cut with a gaurd comb and was somehow shocked that I basicly ruined the cut LoL. It was kind of a DUH!! moment. I could have saved it... maybe, but it wasn't worth it. I did this http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=1385 instead.

Of course... now I have enough hair to round off her braceletts, which I did last week, but I no longer have the E.S. on her. All that remains now is the faint impression of where the lines in the back legs were. Oh well :( Maybe I'll put it back in the fall?
 

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Well, I think the ES trim just isnt prefered anymore. It used to be popular many years ago but I have never seen a Poodle in the ES trim at a show yet since 2001.

I personally do NOT like that clip (no offence) but there are a few that like it too. I think having a Poodle in the ES clip amoung the prefered Cont clip would cost you wins, sorry to say.

Also, the black and white Poodle color thing is absolutely true. Black and white are the prefered color's amoung judges. Most newbies (myself) start with black and white dogs and then venture to colored poodles after they have established themselves. Also, most breeders for show will only sell you a black and white dog if your new. If your planning to hire a known pro handler, thats different. New owner handler's, almost always advised to start with black and white.
 

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I love the ES clip, but dont like it on standard poodles. Really dont think it suits them. Plenty I have seen in continental look stunning. This is just my opionion and its up to the owner how they want to put their dogs in.

Ive put my minis and toys in ES clip, only some I have done continental.

Edited to say black and whites are easier to show, but a really nice coloured dog shouldnt let you down. More and more I have seen coloured dogs win.
 

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. I think having a Poodle in the ES clip amoung the prefered Cont clip would cost you wins, sorry to say.
Yes this is true , My sister wanted to put Enzo in ES clip when he turns adult but Terry told us he will not win because the judge will think we are hiding something ..... With dog shows its so political you need to really just copy everyone and when you become know that's when you bust out with something different lol.
 

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The continental is the easiest show clip to maintain hints the reason its so popular in the show ring.

As for color, what wins gets bred and what started winning was blacks and whites. Same goes for any other breed like Pomeranian's, people are shocked when they find out they come in other colors. :lol:

I'm always the one to suggest you be bold and go with what YOU like not what other people think you should like. ;)
 

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The continental is the easiest show clip to maintain hints the reason its so popular in the show ring.

As for color, what wins gets bred and what started winning was blacks and whites. Same goes for any other breed like Pomeranian's, people are shocked when they find out they come in other colors. :lol:

I'm always the one to suggest you be bold and go with what YOU like not what other people think you should like. ;)

I know people do not realize many breeds come in more than one color. Like PP said what wins gets bred so colors get bred out ..... Beagles come in many hound colors but you only see tricolor.

My sister is bold so we got a red and reds barely win ( standards)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
thanks to everyone who answered my earlier question

I know the winning standard at Westminster 1997 was in an EC cut, but I thought her leg puffs were way too huge. I can't imagine a judge thinking a classic 1930s or 40s EC cut was hiding anything: The hair on the legs was beautifully contoured to the body. Once again, look at the Blakeen dogs! Done right, it is stunning and looks good on a standard. I would love to get a bunch of exhibitors to enter a show in EC cuts....

Gotta go...more later
 

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Yep, that would be a sight to see. A line up of Poodles in the ES clip.

Color wise, I personally happen to like black and white Poodle so it works out great for me. Ive seen silver's, browns, blues and reds/apricots and I only would have a silver out of those colors. I plan to only breed solids in black, white/cremes and silver one day. I know other color's come up from what's behind the lines but we will have to evaluate that when it happens.

I already have someone talking to me about using Sting to there red female they own in a few yrs. Im personally not interested.

So far the only attractive red dog Ive seen is Enzo. Other's are cute but nothing to whooo about.
 

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lol, there really is no hiding when your butt is shaved bald is there ? LoL.

I could see how a judge might think to question a dog in an E.S. now that you bring it up. You can do a lot with hair, even if it's short hair. Of course you can adjust a continental too and make things appear different if you need too. A good judge would see right through that, but well as a handler your job is to present the dog to it's best advantage.

I'm curious, even though you dont see many dogs in the E.S. at most shows do they have at least a few at a specailty show or is the trim *that* out of fashion that it really isn't used much at all. I would love to see a few at shows, what a neat picture that would make :)
 

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Yep, that would be a sight to see. A line up of Poodles in the ES clip.

Color wise, I personally happen to like black and white Poodle so it works out great for me. Ive seen silver's, browns, blues and reds/apricots and I only would have a silver out of those colors. I plan to only breed solids in black, white/cremes and silver one day. I know other color's come up from what's behind the lines but we will have to evaluate that when it happens.

I already have someone talking to me about using Sting to there red female they own in a few yrs. Im personally not interested.

So far the only attractive red dog Ive seen is Enzo. Other's are cute but nothing to whooo about.
Thanks Jenn for you kind complements :D yes it is true that most reds are nothing whoo about it took my sister a LONG time to find him. I like Terry's dogs and thats about it , its hard finding nice show ones that are actually red and not apricot. There are a few breeders trying to get quality reds right now.
 

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Roxy...did you see the website for Bijou poodles.
Their male Razz did really well in a show ring.
He is a stunning red.
 

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Roxy...did you see the website for Bijou poodles.
Their male Razz did really well in a show ring.
He is a stunning red.
Yes I been there several times , ( I have heard bad info from that breeder) my sister was going to pay for one of her dogs , but as we got more familar with the poodle standard , we decided that her dogs where not what we where looking for. Razz is nice looking and she has a female I like but most of her dogs I would not say are quality enough to show in AKC. She also breeds them oversized IMO who wants a bitch 28inchs at the withers ? She is also the one that says her dogs does not fade ..... let me just stop there lol
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Wow, Razz is GORGEOUS!

I have no idea about what sort of breeder Bijou actually is, but I was blown away by Razz! What a beauty!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I love the ES clip, but dont like it on standard poodles. Really dont think it suits them. Plenty I have seen in continental look stunning. This is just my opionion and its up to the owner how they want to put their dogs in.

Ive put my minis and toys in ES clip, only some I have done continental.

Edited to say black and whites are easier to show, but a really nice coloured dog shouldnt let you down. More and more I have seen coloured dogs win.
I took a cell-phone pic of an absolutely stunning photo of a white standard in an ES clip at Westminster I think will change your mind, assuming I can get said photo from my phone and onto this forum...can you tell me how?
 

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Wow! This thread is over two years old, LOL!

Anyway, my boy is in English Saddle!

He is freshly cut into pattern in these photos (as in..he was in puppy trim 3 days before these photos!), so the cut does not look nearly as good as it will when he's got more hair. Can't wait to see how he looks in April!
 

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I think Tiger suits is well, but I do not know if it conditioning or what, but I really love the Continental now. When I was a kid most of the show dogs were in ES. Maybe that is why I prefer the CC .
 

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I love both. I am really liking the English Saddle right now because I don't see a lot of it. I too have heard that you need a lot of jacket hair to pull it off and that you cannot be too leggy. Somehow Tiger manages pulls it off being extremely leggy and not having a ton of jacket hair. His handler and crew actually think that, aside from growing some hair to smooth it out and make it less boxy (and to eliminate the tight scissoring on back of thigh left over from puppy cut), he really doesn't need much more hair.

Anyway, I'd love to see the cut on the Westminster standard! Will surely put Tiger to shame, LOL!
 
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