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As we search the net and talk as a family, I feel we really want a oversize mini or a small standard. 25-45lb or so. I want a lap dog of a sort, friendly, and trainable. But husband figures a 55lb standard too big and i feel anything under 25 lb might be too fragile.:I.e. break leg getting off couch.

1. i wonder if it is seen as insulting to ask if they have an outlier pup or adult dog. that is asking if they have a dog too small to breed or show.

2. Is offering moyen/Klein seen as ok by poodle breeders? we would never own an unaltered dog, so health and traits matter most.

3. Some breeders do not mention prices. What do I assume is likely now? People are outright posting prices going from $3000 now to $4000 Jan 2021. Beyond what I can spend.
do I mention our range if anyone does respond.

4. not to upset anyone but one standard breeder said if you follow it, mini breeders have moved away from the because getting too many nippy, hyper dogs. Thoughts?

FYI of the contacts only one actually replied (no pups but the Best Poodle Ever will be Breeding but expects black puppies and I still worry my vision issues make it harder...and his dogs are so perfect I did not even want to ask If he gets various sizes.
we are also looking at rescue dogs.
 

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I don't think it would be insulting to ask if they have an adult dog to adopt--breeders are in touch with a lot of people who are in the breed and would be able to match you up with a dog if they knew about one. And it's common in the smaller sizes for the dog to outgrow the standard, so occasionally there will be one of the breeder's dogs that needs re-homed.

Only a very very very small percentage of breeders in the U.S. breed Kleins and Moyens, so you'll need to shop around for a breeder who specifically breeds these dogs. A good portion of breeders have it in the contract now that you must wait at least a year before spaying or neutering the dog, since studies have shown that waiting until the dog is fully grown is beneficial and prevents health issues. The ones that breed Kleins/Moyens that I know of require you to wait.

About $2,500 to $3,000 is considered a good price for a well-bred poodle, especially in the Northeast. Those going over that are likely scams. I would ask about price, rather than mentioning range, since the prices are typically set in stone.

Good mini breeders are not getting nippy and hyper dogs (although the minis are considered to be active), and are generally committed to their lines. There are just fewer of the good mini breeders, so the sample size is skewed towards the bad breeders. I'm speculating here, but it sounds to me like that Spoo breeder is either biased or wants you to buy from them.
 

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anything under 25 lb might be too fragile.:I.e. break leg getting off couch.
My experience is with miniatures, 7 of them since 1963. They've ranged from 11lbs to 22lbs, full grown. None have ever fractured anything jumping on or off anything. Sass did mess up a patella rounding a corner on hardwood floors, slipped and crashed into a chair. She also hurt her back a couple of times. She was the 22 pounder (at peak weight). Mini's bones are pretty sturdy.

1. i wonder if it is seen as insulting to ask if they have an outlier pup or adult dog. that is asking if they have a dog too small to breed or show.
It's perfectly acceptable to say that you're looking for an oversize mini or a smaller standard without saying anything about showing. If it's a pup, they can only give a best guess as to adult size based on the parents and previous generations. You'll be able to see the adult size for yourself. "Outlier" is used as a term in breeding, looking for dogs that carry less common genetic material, nothing to do with size.

2. Is offering moyen/Klein seen as ok by poodle breeders? we would never own an unaltered dog, so health and traits matter most.
The medium size isn't recognized by the AKC, United Kennel Club, or Canadian Kennel Club so very few breeders claiming to be breeding them in the US and Canada are actually importing the legitimate medium poodles from Europe to use in breeding. Be very cautious. If the true medium poodle interests you, contact Karbit to learn about them. Unaltered doesn't factor in, since it's just a variety of size.

3. Some breeders do not mention prices. What do I assume is likely now? People are outright posting prices going from $3000 now to $4000 Jan 2021. Beyond what I can spend.
do I mention our range if anyone does respond.
Quality, conscientious breeders aren't charging more due to demand. They don't breed for profits. In the US prices typically range from $1500-$2500 with some variance down or up. You might see $3000 from a responsible breeder but anything higher is just taking advantage and not a breeder I'd want to pursue. Pricing not appearing on a website is not unusual.

In fact, if you see pricing and a Paypal button to make a payment thru, or the word "ordering" for buying a poodle, well, that's another breeder I personally would not pursue. That seems to be in place for an impulse buy. A quality breeder would not let their poodles go home with just anyone who can pay the price.

I'd wait til the second contact to ask, if it doesn't come out naturally in a first contact. They should be asking you quite a lot of questions, too. If the conversations start to feel like you're each checking the other out before your respective kids go off to Prom, then you probably are talking to a good breeder. That's not the only clue tho.

4. not to upset anyone but one standard breeder said if you follow it, mini breeders have moved away from the because getting too many nippy, hyper dogs. Thoughts?
Not to upset that standard breeder, but that sounds like a tactic rather than a fact. Not every pup from every litter will have the same temperament, but to suggest that the entire variety is getting too many nippy, hyper dogs just doesn't make sense. Again, quality, conscientious breeders are very careful with their lines and would be looking at temperaments of the parents and ancestors as well as the health testing.


"...Best Poodle Ever will be Breeding but expects black puppies and I still worry my vision issues make it harder...and his dogs are so perfect I did not even want to ask If he gets various sizes."

Absolutely you should ask what sizes he's breeding, and ask for the registered names of the sires and dams so you can go to the OFA site and look up the health testing for yourself. If they say their dogs are AKC or UKC registered, verify that.

I'm not sure if "Best Poodle Ever" is a breeder's or kennel name? I find nothing on an internet search, and without seeing anything, my antenna are already waving, not in a good way.
 

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thanks for all the help. Will explain about my Best Poodle comment..

"...Best Poodle Ever will be Breeding but expects black puppies and I still worry my vision issues make it harder...and his dogs are so perfect I did not even want to ask If he gets various sizes."

Absolutely you should ask what sizes he's breeding, and ask for the registered names of the sires and dams so you can go to the OFA site and look up the health testing for yourself. If they say their dogs are AKC or UKC registered, verify that.

I'm not sure if "Best Poodle Ever" is a breeder's or kennel name? I find nothing on an internet search, and without seeing anything, my antenna are already waving, not in a good way.
[/QUOTE]
did not want to mention breeder in case not done, but looks like it is ok. I meant I found this dog to be so striking, so handsome (vs pretty) He looks alert, sturdy. I know nothing about quality poodles but to me he just looked Right.

the Best Poodle Ever (imho) at least of the standard poodles found in my online search is
GCH Farleys D 'Anolani Santiago de Chile
aka Santiago
from Farleysd Red and Apricot Standard Poodle | The Boys

as mentioned our Sheltie was too short. His sire was ch Dundee Amos Moses ROM, so I now know how to look online for kennel info. Little to no knowledge of non-conformation awards though. Newer to me too is confirming health tests.
toby’s sire was Ch Dundee Amos Moses. Handsome!
 

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the Best Poodle Ever (imho) at least of the standard poodles found in my online search is
GCH Farleys D 'Anolani Santiago de Chile
aka Santiago
from Farleysd Red and Apricot Standard Poodle | The Boys
I am not clear if your reference to 'Best Poodle Ever' is the person who owns a dam to be bred by the excellent Farleys D Standard Poodles, of she's a different breeder. Farley is a member here, his user name is farleysd. To my knowledge he does not have a FB account but might belong to this FB group.

There are so many increasingly sophisticated scams going on that if you found a FB account named 'Best Poodle Ever' advertising yet-to-be-conceived puppies of her dam by his sire Santiago, please call him directly using the phone number to his official website, or PM him and give him the name of owner of the dam to confirm.

@farleysd will hopefully see this post.


FYI of the contacts only one actually replied (no pups but the Best Poodle Ever will be Breeding but expects black puppies....
Santiago is red. 'Best Poodle Ever' would have to have a black female to maybe get a black puppy. There is no way she would know ahead of time if the litter will be all reds, all blacks, or both. Her telling you she will have a black puppy in the future after it's been bred is a red flag that makes me wonder if this is an elaborate scam - unless she had a litter before by Santiago and had black puppies and thinks this will happen again.

I still worry my vision issues make it harder...and his dogs are so perfect I did not even want to ask If he gets various sizes.
If your vision would make it hard to see the beauty of a black poodle, get a lighter shade and don't settle. Getting a puppy is sorta like missing a bus: if you miss one another comes along. Farley breeds reds and apricots, and you can get on his waiting list.


Also good breeders will welcome your questions and won't have anything hide. However be aware and respectful of their time. Ask first if they have ten minutes for your questions. Have a list and take notes. If your needs fit what they have, they'll talk longer.
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