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Discussion Starter #1
Harry has been a little bad boy lately. I'm fixing the problem but past 3 times my 2 year old has tried to lay her head on Harry, he's grumbled at her and gotten up and moved. The first two times I didn't even know what he had done or what happened, it happened so fast, so I talked to my husband about it and asked if he thought he was growling, he said no. I knew for sure yesterday when she tried again and I was right there and he made the sound and tried to get up, mind you he was not asleep when she tried this. I have pictures of my daughter and this dog where she spent a good amount of time laying on his chest and has even gone and taken a leg and put it over herself like a blanket and he never moved an inch. Well, I talked to a board member here and realized that with the new addition, Mia, we've gotten a bit of change up going on in his life so he's trying to readjust pack structure. He's also taken to growling at our cat over food and treats which I do NOT allow and he has never ever done before. So what we are doing is putting him in a down with me right there and allowing my daughter to come up and lay her head on him and waiting to let them up until he relaxes. If he tries to get up (which he did immediately the first time we tried this) he gets the chhht and touch until he relaxes. We are also letting her feed him once a day and putting him in a sit before he gets food from her. He doesn't do this to anyone else in the house, not even the other smaller kids, just the 2 year old.

I'm sure some will not agree with my methods of training him and that's fine but this is what we are doing and I've noticed his behavior better already. He was trying to rush through doors before her (knocked her down once) and now he's more polite. He just lost himself with Mia being here and we are ordering him back into a human on top/leader, dog below position.
 

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I'm sure some will not agree with my methods of training him and that's fine but this is what we are doing and I've noticed his behavior better already. He was trying to rush through doors before her (knocked her down once) and now he's more polite. He just lost himself with Mia being here and we are ordering him back into a human on top/leader, dog below position.
First, I do agree. And it makes good sence to me. He has to adjust himself a bit to the way it was. Also the way he plays with Mia is surely some of why he also "talking" at her like that. We did a similar thing with Aoki when she was younger - she would growl or talk certain ways you held her - and it does pop up once in great while and we regroup, quickly.
 

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First let me say that I do agree with your mthods. But be careful not to push too hard Poodles can be a wee bit vindictive :) I would do the same as you are doing set up the senario in a very controlled environment. Make sure that Harry knows that you are watching, make eye contact, and if he grumbles Tell him How much you dissaprove with a Bad dog . Loud !!! Good luck you have your hands full....
 

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Discussion Starter #4
First let me say that I do agree with your mthods. But be careful not to push too hard Poodles can be a wee bit vindictive :) I would do the same as you are doing set up the senario in a very controlled environment. Make sure that Harry knows that you are watching, make eye contact, and if he grumbles Tell him How much you dissaprove with a Bad dog . Loud !!! Good luck you have your hands full....
Thanks. And this is was my very best boy.:fish:
 

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I completely agree ! The sooner the problem is addressed - sooner it is fixed !

My "Husky dog" friend had 2 little daughters and since Huskys are VERY big on packing order ,he made sure every dog knew that they are NOT to mess up with human babies. He made his daughters sit on all dogs on daily bases during play-time !!!! That was , in his words, the ultimate "dominance move" and they never had any problems in the home , even when new puppy would come into the houshold.

He had 6 dogs since he was into dog-sledding and Husky is very independent breed. I am sure that with a Harry you will have very fast results since spoos by nature are very agreeable dogs :):):) !!!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Today I gave treats for being still but I still had to reprimand first because he tried again to get up. He does NOT want to submit to her but he will because I say so and that's the way I look at things. Even though poodles are a bit sensitive, this poodle can be stubborn. He's always been a stubborn boy and we have to work with that and be a little bit more watchful of things with him.
 

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I would not force him to tolerate it. His growling is a sign of discomfort and I would respect that. I understand you view the training as a preventative measure, but I think it would be fairer to Harry and safer for your daughter to cease the laying on Harry. I don't see his behaviour as a dominance issue. I see it as Harry clearly stating his dislike of being lay on and he is respecting your daughter by leaving and growling, rather than snapping or biting her. While Harry might resign himself to obeying with you there, your daughter could lie on him at any time and if you're not there, and your daughter forces Harry to stay, ignoring his warning signals, you could end up with a bite.
To respect Harry and keep your daughter safe, I would put an end to laying on Harry.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I would not force him to tolerate it. His growling is a sign of discomfort and I would respect that. I understand you view the training as a preventative measure, but I think it would be fairer to Harry and safer for your daughter to cease the laying on Harry. I don't see his behaviour as a dominance issue. I see it as Harry clearly stating his dislike of being lay on and he is respecting your daughter by leaving and growling, rather than snapping or biting her. While Harry might resign himself to obeying with you there, your daughter could lie on him at any time and if you're not there, and your daughter forces Harry to stay, ignoring his warning signals, you could end up with a bite.
To respect Harry and keep your daughter safe, I would put an end to laying on Harry.
That's your opinion and I respectfully disagree with you.
 

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If harry never Growled at your daughter or cat before then IMO that is a sign of his dispproval of Mia coming into the family. Harry feels like he needs to step in and be in control. This happens sometimes with dogs and they just need to be reminded who is leader.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That's fine. I'm just wondering why you feel Harry needs to accept being lay on?
Because this is a dominance issue. I know my dog so I know how he reacts to things and as wishpoo pointed out, dogs use their bodies to push each other around and I've seen him use his body to pin Mia down. This stuff is their language to show who is stronger. Who is strongest is typically the one in charge. My daughter is over him no matter what. He will lay still for her to exert her dominance over him because I say he will. It doesn't hurt him in anyway so there is no reason not to do it. It's like grooming, he has to stay still because I say so. He doesn't want to do it but if I say he does it, he will do it. He stays still for the others and for me and for my husband but he won't stay still for her, dominance pull.
 

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Oh dogs definitely know of whom they can boss around - no question about that !

I once puppy-set for my Husky friend ! Puppy was 12 weeks and my younger was 5 years at that time. He showed respect to me, my hubby, my older daughter , but groveled at my younger one even when she would just enter the room and sit quietly on the sofa watching the TV. He hated the fact that she CAN sit on the sofa and he can not :wacko: !!!! He never had problem of anybody else sitting on the sofa !

Since she was the youngest and she is a very timid child he sensed an opportunity to change the packing order LMAO - to make HER sit on the floor and himself on the sofa ! People sometimes do not understand that dogs have different way of "thinking" and completely different set of rules in their world.

I agree that training Harry has to be carefully planned - baby needs to show her control in other areas (feeding, who enters first , etc.) , but does he need to be corrected - absolutely !
 

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We've never had any problems with our dog about tolerance/dominance of the kids. They can lay on her, pet her, kiss her, hug her, even the naughty things they get disciplined for and she puts up with it. I don't think we ever did anything special with her. I wish you luck in training him though! I wish I had some good advice.
 

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Our spoo did this at first with my 18 month old. Kala was just a puppy then and would growl if he came up to her on the couch. I would say NO! and make her get off the couch. That happened a few times, but it was when she was still sort of nervous with her surroundings here. I still keep my eye out though because you just never know. Dogs-no matter how well you think you know them-are still dogs. I think you are doing things right as long as you don't push the issue too much. Give him a place to go if he doesn't want to be bothered(I am sure you do I am just speaking in general). Good luck and I am sure it will all work out. :)
 

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Our spoo did this at first with my 18 month old. Kala was just a puppy then and would growl if he came up to her on the couch. I would say NO! and make her get off the couch. That happened a few times, but it was when she was still sort of nervous with her surroundings here. I still keep my eye out though because you just never know. Dogs-no matter how well you think you know them-are still dogs. I think you are doing things right as long as you don't push the issue too much. Give him a place to go if he doesn't want to be bothered(I am sure you do I am just speaking in general). Good luck and I am sure it will all work out. :)
Thinking about this again. I don't know if having a place only for him is a good idea now that I mention it. lol. Then, what if the baby were to go to him at that place he may think he owns it. Hmmm. I am debating with myself now:)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thinking about this again. I don't know if having a place only for him is a good idea now that I mention it. lol. Then, what if the baby were to go to him at that place he may think he owns it. Hmmm. I am debating with myself now:)
Well, yeah you are right, the dogs in my house don't own anything, I do so if I want to take something away I will but I'm not cruel about it. Alphas are fair and not cruel. They don't just take things because they can. If the dog has something I don't go up and snatch it away. If I've put food down for them to eat, I don't get up and just go take it away from them to see if I can. I do allow him to walk off as long as he isn't growling at her. If he just wants to get up and switch positions and move because he doesn't want to be laid on that's fine as long as he's NOT growling at her. Growling is a threat and it's already escalated too far in my opinion so he's being disrespectful to her if he's growling. I am just of the mind set that the dog has to tolerate what we do to it even if he/she isn't always that comfortable. There are many things that we do that they don't do in wild packs of dogs like bathing, trimming nails, vet visits to probe them, and so forth. If we just let them get up and walk away from us when we tried to do those things with us they'd be in control of the situation and they'd never be clean or groomed or treated for illnesses when they had to get vet exams.

Look at it like this. If you were in the middle of talking to your husband and he just up and left the room because he wasn't liking what you were talking about, who is in control of the situation? The person left talking to themselves or the one that just disrespected you and left the room?
 

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Yes, my son has laid on our dog before. I did not and do not encourage climbing on the dogs, but I will not allow my dog to do anything other than lay there until my son moves, if he does go give him hugs. My son loves animals and likes to give them huggs and kisses. We teach our children to be kind and respect the animals, but at the same time we teach the dogs that they must do the same. Here is my son, about a year ago, with Pete. Pete loves my son and has never shown any dominance over him but you better believe if he ever would, he would be corrected for it.
 

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Yes, my son has laid on our dog before. I did not and do not encourage climbing on the dogs, but I will not allow my dog to do anything other than lay there until my son moves, if he does go give him hugs. My son loves animals and likes to give them huggs and kisses. We teach our children to be kind and respect the animals, but at the same time we teach the dogs that they must do the same. Here is my son, about a year ago, with Pete. Pete loves my son and has never shown any dominance over him but you better believe if he ever would, he would be corrected for it.
Side comment that is an adorable shot!
 

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Love the pic cash, and this is how the dog should behave..
I totally agree and that comment about the kids need to respect the dogs as the dogs need to respect the kids, boy I couldn't agree more!! I didn't know how to put it I guess. My daughter is gently trying to put her head on his chest it's not like she's plopping down on him and he never ever had an issue with this until Mia got here and he's tried to restructure the pack order.
 
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