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Discussion Starter #1
I know that there is OFA as well as PennHip certification. If you were looking for a puppy, would it matter that much, what the ratings for the parents’ hips were if you planned on doing performance activities? If there were a sire and dam with ‘good’ and ‘fair’ hips, would that be good enough?
 

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When I was looking for miniature poodles, I was thinking about this as I plan on doing agility. Since hips tend to be pretty good for miniatures, I was not willing to accept any fairs in the immediate parents. Additionally, I looked at all relatives and would have been concerned if many of the close relatives were fair. With the pup I ended up going with, there was only one fair for one relative, with all the others good or excellent. I think his parents were good-excellent. For standards I know hips are more of an issue, so it is possible I would have to be more lenient. But I would still try to avoid fairs.
 

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Hips matter even for a couch potato. I would expect excellent. Why would you breed a dog that wasn't excellent? There is no shortage of poodles.
 

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I know that there is OFA as well as PennHip certification. If you were looking for a puppy, would it matter that much, what the ratings for the parents’ hips were if you planned on doing performance activities? If there were a sire and dam with ‘good’ and ‘fair’ hips, would that be good enough?



No way! I would probably be fine with an excellent and a good, but no fair ratings.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't know how it happened but somehow there was a duplicate post. I edited it out with this.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, that complicates things. There are a couple of breeders that wouldn't require me to pick up in person but the parents' OFAs are good and fair on both litters. Their dogs are involved in performance activities but I wasn't sure about the "fair" ratings. When my friend was looking at Lagotti, a breeder was charging $4k for puppies and the dam did not pass. The breeder said that it wasn't a big deal because there are different systems and the dam was not lame or dysplastic.
I don't believe that a dog that doesn't pass should be bred. However, a lot of people think the ratings are not accurate or don't reflect the dog's actual abilities. I've also heard that two excellents are not good because the hips can be too tight and prone to injury. I would have felt better with two goods, though. Since dogs aren't bred until they're 2 and the OFA isn't performed until then, I think, then it's possible that dogs can earn show titles without having excellent hips. So, I guess breeders feel that there are enough other qualities worth breeding. The search continues.
 

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I do not agree with those who say that a dog with fair hips should not be bred. Hips do matter and I do think that the OFA evaluations are worthwhile and should be considered. But they should be considered in the context of a lot of other things that good breeders take into account when they make the complex decisions of which dogs to breed. Fair is a passing grade. While Fair is not what you are looking for, there are lots of other qualities to consider. You want breeding dogs that have a fabulous temperament, a pedigree full of champions and healthy poodles, beautiful movement, a beautiful coat, a nice chest, great overall structure, not too inbred, and ideally an AKC championship. And a good breeder will be carefully evaluating how the dam and the sire work together to improve the lines. Realistically, you are not going to find a dog that is absolutely perfect in every way. If you insist on excellent x excellent hips, you better be prepared to make big compromises in other areas. Most breeding poodles do not get excellent ratings. I would accept fair x good if everything else looked fabulous.

PS. My two dogs are excellent (Cammie) and good (Sam), so what I say above is theoretical for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I just want to scream! Between the breeders who just don’t respond, the ones who insist on me being there personally to pick up the dogs, and those are many-was just turned down by one recently-the ones who sell dogs by color not temperament, those who want deposits prior to breeding, those who insist on spay or neuter too early, and the ones who will sell me a dog but the parents’ hips aren’t great, there’s not much left!
 

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I have learned a lot about hips from being on this forum. While both of my dogs have good and excellent hips on all parents, I would be more open to a fair now from what I've learned.
 
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