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Discussion Starter #1
Okay so since the breeding is a Go I want to deiced now weather or not to dock and remove dew claws. I personally like the natural look but I'm not sure about showing with a natural dog? My friend and co-breeder says its up to me....what do y'all think?
 

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No docking allowed now in Oz so my boy is ala natural and I haven't known any different so I like it. His dew claws have been removed for which I am very grateful as a learner groomer, one less thing to worry about and I imagine gives anice finish to legs when they are cut short as you wouldn't have dew claws sticking out.

Personally I am against docking and am glad we don't do it here anymore, now all dogs have to compete with their tails so no-one has an unfair advantage. BUT if you still can over there I'm interested to see if any of the showies think dogs with tails are penalised in the ring.

I love the look of a docked and ear cropped doberman and while I would never buy one purely because I am opposed to cosmetically altering a dog for looks alone they do look fantastic.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have always been an anti-dock/crop/declaw/debark person but now I'm feeling a bit torn...I would really like to know what the UKC shows feel about it. I know with AKC its required (which is asinine) but the UKC does say that a tail carried over the back is a major fault and I would hate to be faulted just because of a natural tail. So....you see my problem?
 

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I think you should do as you like but do consider that a lot of people want a Poodle with a docked tail. Eli's litter did not have there tails docked and I had his docked between 4-5 months. I don't remember exactly how old. I wish he would of had it done and he certainly went through more of a ordeal having it done at 4-5 months then he would of at 3 days.

Also if you are even considering showing then I really think you should have them done. Its better to be safe rather then sorry ecspecially just starting out...with any breed. Dew claws to me are a must. So many dogs catch them on things and tear it. No good!

One more thing to consider...you said Tuesday's tail is a little gay. If you leave the tails natural you very well can have Poodle's with tails that curl over. When there docked you can't always tell they curled. Un-docked and over the back would be a major fault. I say dock them.
 

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I have always been an anti-dock/crop/declaw/debark person but now I'm feeling a bit torn...I would really like to know what the UKC shows feel about it. I know with AKC its required (which is asinine) but the UKC does say that a tail carried over the back is a major fault and I would hate to be faulted just because of a natural tail. So....you see my problem?
PP dock them then and don't take the chance then. Look at like this...boys get cir***sized at a week old and its not a big deal. I was always the one who thought ear cropping was cruel. Then we got our first show dog and I knew it had to be done. They are usually 10 weeks when the ears get cropped and they come home the next day running around and playing like normal. Yes its a little itchy and if they bump then then it hurts for a minute but over all its not that bad. The ears are almost healed in a week. Years of looking at my dog with cropped ears or a docked tail is well worth it to me. That's just my opinion though.
 

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I personally prefer the tail docked...the overall look is more balanced.
My daughter is against docking and here is a picture of her Stella with an undocked tail.
 

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I agree to with the tail being docked, HOWEVER, seeing as there is no real purpose for it and it isn't like docking a talk on a dobie or a schn or something I don't really see that it matters a great deal. Especaily when you consider that you dont really dock much off a poodle tail.
Dewclaws on the other hand, Off with them. I HATE them. Jazz has hers and she is always catching me or the hubby with them. If she were a little younger I would have them removed but as she is three.... I don't know that I will. It's really unpleasant to see one ripped off on an adult dog because they caught it on something.... *shivers* That and people who are not groomers and take their dog to have them groomed have to worry about the groomer forgetting the trim the dewclaw because most dog's have them removed. The owners may even forget that the dog has them. I frequently forget that Howie has his dewclaws and I'll admit to having let them get long a time or two, almost to the point where they started to curve. I would feel horriable if ever they grew into his paw pad, so now I mark it on my calender so it's less likely I will forget. He gets heartworm meds and a nail check on the first of every month now. As a breeder I don't ever leave dew claws now and I really regret the past litters that I have left them.
 

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I agree to with the tail being docked, HOWEVER, seeing as there is no real purpose for it and it isn't like docking a talk on a dobie or a schn or something I don't really see that it matters a great deal. Especaily when you consider that you dont really dock much off a poodle tail.
Dewclaws on the other hand, Off with them. I HATE them. Jazz has hers and she is always catching me or the hubby with them. If she were a little younger I would have them removed but as she is three.... I don't know that I will. It's really unpleasant to see one ripped off on an adult dog because they caught it on something.... *shivers* That and people who are not groomers and take their dog to have them groomed have to worry about the groomer forgetting the trim the dewclaw because most dog's have them removed. The owners may even forget that the dog has them. I frequently forget that Howie has his dewclaws and I'll admit to having let them get long a time or two, almost to the point where they started to curve. I would feel horriable if ever they grew into his paw pad, so now I mark it on my calender so it's less likely I will forget. He gets heartworm meds and a nail check on the first of every month now. As a breeder I don't ever leave dew claws now and I really regret the past litters that I have left them.

I would certainly not have dew claws removed on Jazz at this point. I had Eli's removed when we had his tail docked (4-5 months old) and he was in a lot of pain. My husband and I were so upset thinking we did the wrong thing. However it had already been done and we just had to deal with it. It took a few days before Eli could walk comfortably. That why I feel that PP should just have it all done (dew's and tails) when they are 3 days and not worry about a future owner having it done later. Its much more painful for the dog later. That just my opinion though. :tongue:
 

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I just gotta state I'm all for docking if it's done at the right age
(we usually do our puppies before they are three days old by a vet).
I honestly prefer the docked tail compared to the natural toilet brush
tail, lol. As for Dewclaws, my dogs haven't had theirs removed but it
is something I would definitely consider doing in the future. ;)

Never had any of our dogs ears cropped, but I do prefer it on some breeds
as well such as the bulldogs, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I still don't know what I'm going to do. I like the natural tail and I've never had an issue with front dewclaws. For now I think I'll stick with leaving the tails natural. With the dewclaws I think I'll wait and see when they are born if they are attached they will stay if they are unattached I'll have them removed.

I like the natural look of other breeds as well...

Tuesdays tail is docked a little long as it the sire and you can see where it would start to curve and I think it will be okay. Like I said all but 2 of the pups will be pets only.
 

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So are you going to dock the tail on your pic pup or are you going to attemp to show it with a natural tail?

IMO you should reconsider leaving the tails natural. I can't speak for all but most people that want to purchase a Poodle puppy just expect that it will have its tail docked at least. It just seems like a mandatory thing to do for a Poodle here in the U.S.

When I bought Eli I knew he had a tail. It gave me room to neg. the price because I would have to add that expense onto what I was paying for him. Mr. Eli ended up being a $800.00 dog after it was all done. $375.00 (ELI) $420.00 (dew and dock). Thats still is a decent price for a Standard Poodle (pet) but what a headache trying to figure out if I should or not. Some vets and people said it can ruin the dog having is tail docked now and other's said he'll probably be fine. It took me a few months to get the courage to have it done. Im gald I did now even though the retarded vet did it too short but its better then looking at his long tail.

Well I better stop blabbing on and on about why I think you should reconsider. lol I Thats just what I think about the whole idea. Away with the tails! lol
 

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I have no clue what the right thing to do is

Star has a docked tail and no dew claws.

My other dogs have all had dew claws. One dog had one rip badly and had to have surgery and it grew back and so I am glad not to have to trim them on Star.

If given the choice myself.....I would probably leave the tail and dew claws alone and go natural....but.....I am a 'wuss'.

~Mari :star: keeper
 

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I so want a poodle with a full tail. Here in Canada it will be illigal to do cosmetic on a dog in BC I think it was. I notice more and more breeders leaving the tail now but still doing dw claws.
Poor Casey has a BOBBED tail and wish it was longer. Looks like a rottie tail to be honest
Natural is the way of the future
 

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Soooo, if you were to decide to go ahead and dock, do you have a vet who is good at it, and will listen to instructions on exactly where and how you want it done? Something to think about. Look at all the toy poo's that barely have a tail at all, they just have sort of a butt flap that covers up their pooper.

One of my best clients who also has a standard poodle that I just adore and have been grooming for a little over a year made a comment about Jazz's tail being long and she asked if it had not been docked. I really had to bite my tounge to keep from pointing out that HER dog's tail was waaayyyy to short, thus making Jazz's tail look long to her. She paid a lot of money for that dog and bless her she is really serious about his care and his haircuts to the point of being crazy sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Jenn I can't believe you went and had Eli's tail a dews done after you got him! :shock: Would it have been that bad to leave them there? I could never imagine taking in an older puppy and putting it though that, its bad enough at 3 days old. I had my Dachshunds done when we had her spayed but that's only because hers were detached and she chewed on them. All of my dogs with dews use them and I have never had an issue with them over growing.

Yeah I think I'll leave them natural, and yes I will show the pup natural. Imported dogs are shown natural all the time and I don't think they are faulted are they.

I think a lot of puppy buyers are not even aware that their tails are cut off *shrug* I will let potential puppy buyers know that they will be natural so it won't be a shock.

I don't care for cropping either, my second love is the Miniature Schnauzer and to me there is nothing cuter then a natural eared/tailed Schnauzer.

Yeah, natural. :)

Thanks for your opinions though I appreciate them.
 

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Just to play the devil's advocate - will potential show puppy buyres even want to look if they know the tails are natural? Obviously over here it isn't an issue anymore cause we're all natural tails but some people may have a perception right or wrong that their pup will be penalised if it has the longer tail?

Definately dew claws off thought. It is soo much easier to groom legs with no dew claws and no worry about them being ripped off at a later date by rough play, getting caught, what ever...
 

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ok if it is alitter not on the ground yet why not take reservations with or without the tails unrefundable and give them the choice till pups are born.
I realize one can't choose a pup they can't see and probably not for a few weeks but that way some are given a choice which for me as said would be natural and it won't be a few short years till it is the norm anyways
 

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I think a lot of puppy buyers are not even aware that their tails are cut off *shrug* I will let potential puppy buyers know that they will be natural so it won't be a shock.
You are 100% right there. A lot of people aren't even aware that poo tails are docked. I wasn't until about 4 years ago when my vet wanted to know if I knew " so and so the poodle breeder who shows her dogs" She said so and so had just been in to have a litter's tails docked. I was like, you dock a poodle tail?? The vet laughed at me, but there ya go, I learned something new.
In my area if a poodle has a natural tail (and this goes for cockers, schnauzers, dobes, and anything else you can think of that gets docked), everyone thinks it's a mix and not a purebred. We have a standard who's tail is natural and everyone thinks he's a labradoodle and will go as far as to argue with his owner about the fact.

I still stand by the dew claw thing though, it's as much for the dog's comfort as it is for the owners. You may not have had a problem, but then YOU probably pay loads of attention to you dogs and their physical condition on a daily bases. Most pet owners do not, which is why you get grown in dew claws. Alot of groomers assume that responsible breeders remove dewclaws and in my area at least a great many of those groomers forget to check for them and trim the nails.
I'm not sure how your dogs are using their dew claws either. Maybe you could explain? I have two in my house that have theirs and they don't use them, they can't. They are to high up for digging or climbing.
 
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