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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay, this is haunting me and I have to get it off my chest. Note that it's a secondhand story, with some third-hand elements, so I can't be sure all details are 100% accurate.

My parents are currently far from home, staying in an RV park with their two little dogs until it's safe to travel again. My mom heard a horrible scuffle a few mornings ago, but didn't see anything when she went outside. Later she learned the scuffle was a dog (an extremely protective guard breed) KILLING their neighbour's toy breed.

Apparently the toy slipped from its harness and "attacked" the big dog (Edit: While the big dog was being walked on leash), so the owners—feeling that it was their fault—quietly packed up and left.

The park manager says he can't do anything about it because the owners of the dead dog took full responsibility. Meanwhile, my parents' dogs are now living a stone's throw from a dog killer. Even worse, the owner said this is the third incident. Not sure if the other two were fatal.

If a dog kills another dog, should it not (at the very least) be muzzled? I'm struggling to wrap my head around the idea that this dog is still being walked daily in a community that is FULL of small dogs and their elderly owners.
 

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Okay, this is haunting me and I have to get it off my chest. Note that it's a secondhand story, with some third-hand elements, so I can't be sure all details are 100% accurate.

My parents are currently far from home, staying in an RV park with their two little dogs until it's safe to travel again. My mom heard a horrible scuffle a few mornings ago, but didn't see anything when she went outside. Later she learned the scuffle was a dog (an extremely protective guard breed) KILLING their neighbour's toy breed.

Apparently the toy slipped from its harness and "attacked" the big dog, so the owners—feeling that it was their fault—quietly packed up and left.

The park manager says he can't do anything about it because the owners of the dead dog took full responsibility. Meanwhile, my parents' dogs are now living a stone's throw from a dog killer. Even worse, the owner said this is the third incident. Not sure if the other two were fatal.

If a dog kills another dog, should it not (at the very least) be muzzled? I'm struggling to wrap my head around the idea that this dog is still being walked daily in a community that is FULL of small dogs and their elderly owners.
I agree absolutely. A dog's willingness to use lethal force that quickly would really scare me. You never know when your dog will be approached by a loose dog. Even if it's provoked I would not be at all comfortable with that.

If I were your parents I would make sure there is zero risk of their dogs getting loose 🥺
 

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Actually they should call the local animal control and check what iare the local laws
 

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This is very upsetting and I feel horrible for the owners🥺.Yeah, something needs to change. Why even have a dog like that near other dogs?! If I could have done anything, I would have that dog working with a trainer and if not a trainer then the owners need to make sure that they stay away from other dogs, or even have the dog put down.
 

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Ask your parents if you can review their lease. It seems it would have a section that forbids possession of various dangerous things, including dangerous animals. In my area, having a dog that attacks a tenant or another dog is grounds for the dog and/or the tenant to be removed. Here are some ideas. When landlords don't enforce these rules, it's usually b/c they're either scared of the tenant (it's usually the douche bags who keep vicious dogs) or they value a tenant who pays on time more than the safety for all tenant.

1) Call their local animal control to see if there are previous reports on the dog. Your parents as witnesses can submit one. You can also call the police and find out who was on duty that morning and got a phone call about it. If not, see if they're willing to go out and talk to the owner since your parents are elderly, frightened, and heard the killing-in-progress.

2) And/or, can you call the manager's office in a 3-way conversation with one of your parents and see what you can find out about this other tenant's dog? Tell them your parents are elderly and could be severely injured trying to break up a dog fight, which is a liability since they already know about this dog's history.

Ask what the RV manager's plans are in forcing them to remove it. Take the person's name you speak to. Collaborate with their local animal control and share what you've been told. If management says they "can't do anything", tell them they can explain that on Yelp, quoting the name of the person, date, and time, you spoke with if they continue allowing this nonsense to continue.

I'm not sure if you can easily find out who owns the RV park; often they are hidden, but it would be great if he/she is brought into the loop. You'd be surprised how often management companies do not tell the owners what's going on.

3) Order bear repellent and/or a stun gun (if legal) to be delivered to your parents.
 

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I personally would speak to who owns the "killer" dog. With respect to him, he was probably on his own turf and was protecting it from an invader. However in a rv park I think its difficult to keep such a dog. Now if the dog randomly will attack any dog, even while its being walked and another dog is being walked, thats a whole different scenario and the dog should be muzzled, In fact, thinking more .. it probably should be muzzled at all times.
 

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If this is true and accurate that dog will attempt to kill again since it has already been successful. It should never be unmuzzled if it is allowed to live, but realistically dogs like this should be euthanized in part because of the dangers it poses and also in part because the quality of a dangerous dog's life can be very very poor if the owner attempts to manage it properly. There will be lots of stress for the people involved and for the managed dog. Everyone will be loaded with cortisol (stress hormone) which will add to the problems.

Here is a link to Ian Dunbar's bite scale which is a very accurate tool for assessing the relative dangers a particular dog poses to other animals and people. This version is from the APDT but it is approved by Dr. Dunbar. There are also versions of it from Sophia Yin and many others. In other words it is pretty universally accepted. I personally would not train a dog that had a history of higher than level 3 in its bite history.

 

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Did you all miss the part where the dog was attacked on his own turf? Dogs are allowed to defend themselves. The owners of the small dog accepted responsibility and left so they could not be held responsible for any vet bills the bigger dog might have had. Are you saying the dog should have known how much bigger he was and bitten gently? Not bitten at all? That's like all the owners of toy dogs who think it's cute when their dogs go around biting people because they are "too small to do any harm". They're not. In this case it was clearly the smaller dog who was to blame.

If this dog has a history of "incidents" that were his fault, he should be muzzled. But we don't know that. We don't know anything about earlier incidents, or even if there were any.
 

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I think, from a liability standpoint, the RV park is absolutely nuts for allowing this dog to remain. The past predicts the future. This dog has a history of incidents.
 

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reraven I don't excuse the little dog either. Frankly I really have no patience for the snappy, yappy, bitey small dogs that are all too common. There is a real problem with the big guarding breed dog too. It killed another dog. I made no assumptions about any unknown history. I based my comments on my knowledge of the Dunbar bite pathology scale which puts the large dog at a 6. If given half a chance most behaviorists who follow the Dunbar scheme would predict it will attempt (and perhaps succeed) in doing so again and the next attack could be on a child or other person. If this were a setting where there was a clear yard and property line that could be defined and the larger dog was on that property then the intruder takes all of the blame for sure, but we are talking about a setting where the property lines are not well defined and perhaps don't really exist at all. Let's face it, there are HOAs, trailer home parks and coops and condos where there are breed bans, size limits, limits on the number of dogs and such. cowpony I'm with you on the risks to the RV park owners on allowing a dog known to be a killer to remain.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
With respect to him, he was probably on his own turf and was protecting it from an invader.
Did you all miss the part where the dog was attacked on his own turf?
Sorry, I'll go back and clarify my post. The dog was being walked when it happened. But who knows what he perceives as "his" turf. If he walks the park every day he might see the whole park as his to protect. Or maybe he protects his humans (which would make sense given the breed).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
we are talking about a setting where the property lines are not well defined and perhaps don't really exist at all.
I think this is the part that's really weighing on me. My parents interact with this family and their dog every day, because the family's out walking and my parents do a lot of walking, too. That's just the nature of the park they're in. I'm sure my mom has actually befriended them, because that's just what she's like. I'm sure they're also very nice people.

My parents' small dogs actually met and interacted with their dog before this happened, totally unaware. I just feel it should be muzzled for any such interactions. Who's to say it won't perceive an extra butt sniff as threatening?

Even if the (now dead) dog really was in attack mode, and not just annoying yappy mode, the swiftness of the killing tells me that the owners can't realistically intervene fast enough if another situation arises.

That's where the muzzle comes in.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
If he was on leash it was "his turf". The area right around his owner is his to protect.
Yes, I think that's probably exactly what he thinks. And to be clear: I don't "blame" the dog in any way. He's doing what he was bred to do.
 
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