[Cdnjennga]

Now days, there are millions of dogs being put to sleep every year for no other reason than they don't have a home. Plenty of these dogs are DDs. In my area, there are at least 3 "doodles" for every one purebred Poodles on Petfinder. There is no reason to breed a dog unless they add something to the breed. (I feel the same way about purebreds btw.)

I so agree with this. There's enough dogs out there already. Breed only if you can bring something positive to the breed. Otherwise speuter and just enjoy your dog as a fantastic pet.

 

[Cdnjennga]

How do you propose to figure out if they are breeding for profit or not? If they make 1 cent on the sale of a puppy to you they are breeding for profit.

No BYB, no Puppy mill... are you going to adopt or buy from a breeder? ??

If you're not breeding FOR profit but do make a profit, then that's a happy accident.

Breeders who breed once or twice a year are lucky to even cover their costs, let alone make a profit. And you can bet even if they do make a profit on one litter they will make a loss on the next so it evens out.

The breeder I am speaking to is only having one litter this year (of mini poodles). She has already spent $2000, not including the stud fee. She doesn't even know if the bitch is pregnant yet! Unless she has a freakishly large litter, she will most likely make a loss. But as she looks at it as a hobby (albeit an expensive hobby) she's ok with that.

 

[Cdnjennga]

I don't feel picked on, I love a good debate!

I`m sure there are lots of happy accidents then. Like you say some breeders want to better the breed and want to deliver a dog to people they know who want one, but I would be hesitant to say that most breeders are like this.

I agree with your last point - especially when it comes to poodles. That's why it takes so long to do your research and find those breeders who are breeding for love of the breed!

How do you figure if they breed twice a year or once a year they don't make a profit? If the breeder does all the shots/health care and grooming then they may have a health test or two... and you know (well I know after talking to my vet) that breeders get a great discount at vets they use over and over and suggest to their clients. Sure there is time, but if it's a hobby then are we counting time as money in that instance... if not then the profit could be higher. I would say that 95% or more breeders would not do it if they were not making money... that may suck but it's true. BYB, Puppy mill or 'quality breeder' its true.

Low volume breeders with only a couple of house dogs are most likely not getting any vet discounts. I would guess only those who have a large number of dogs and litters per year see any sort of cost saving.

Consider the costs that go into planning for and breeding a litter of quality:
- Obtaining your breeding quality puppy
- Obtaining a conformation title/ other performance titles
- All health tests
- Stud fee (usually the cost of one puppy)
- Travel fees to get to the stud if it's at a distance or to fly the sperm to you - if using semen, the implantation cost of the vet
- the costs associated with 8 weeks of care of the puppies - maybe taking time off work?
- feeding costs for the bitch while she's nursing
- vet costs for the puppies (health checks, vaccination etc)

That's all I can think of right now, but I'm sure there's other costs I've missed!

Now, many health tests only need to be done once in the dog's lifetime or once a year. So now you can see why it's so attractive to some people to do back to back breedings, as you will most likely profit on the second. This has been up for debate already, but we saw on another thread why this isn't always a good idea... If you don't do any back to back breedings, then your costs will be double for the two bitches. So profit is still only a maybe, not a given.


How much do Poodles cost there? Out here you can spend $1500 to $2000 for ONE.

A mini poodle here is about 1200. So the money she will make on 2 pups is gone on her expenses so far. The money of one pup is gone on the stud fee. She's keeping one pup. So she would need to have a litter of at least 4 to even cover the costs she has already seen, before she's even had the litter of pups! The average mini poodle litter is 5.

 

[Cdnjennga]

I feel pretty torn about adopting vs buying. I support responsible breeders but there are so many homeless dog out there already. I also feel like there are fewer responsible breeders and they produce fewer litters than their counterparts. Case in point, I've found what appears to be a great breeder only 45 mins away from me, but they don't breed very often (they had one litter about a year ago and have a female just starting out in the showring that they "plan to breed sometime in the future). They are more concerned with showing and enjoying their dogs. This makes for a great breeder but a longer wait for a puppy. Long story short, I'm keeping an eye out for the right rescue, but if it doesn't come along, I will buy from a responsible breeder.

This sums up my feelings exactly! I have been looking for the right rescue for 6 months and only decided to look into breeders when it became obvious I might struggle to find a dog that perfectly fits my needs. So I'm on the waiting list with the breeder, but also applying for rescues. Whichever I make the commitment to first is the one I'm going with.

Back on topic, I actually put an application in for a schnoodle (? schnauzer poodle cross) the other day. I would never get a DD from a breeder but would be quite happy rescuing the right little guy. Here he is: http://uglymutts.com/1818/george-schnoodle-schnauzerpoodle/#more-1818

 

[Cdnjennga]

He didn't have a single poodle quality about him, excepty maybe color.

I have noticed that about poo crossbreeds. They almost always look like the other breed they have been crossed with, with a "somewhat" poodle like coat. That makes it even more confusing to me as to why people would want them.

The schnauzer poodle cross I applied for (and who went to someone else ) looked almost exactly like a schnauzer. And every dachshund poodle I have seen looks like a dachshund with a weird coat. So why bother creating these mixes that looks so much like one of the breeds it comes from?

 

[Cdnjennga]

Huh, I was seriously considering a whippet at one point then settled on a mini poodle. So maybe one of these widdle pups would have been perfect for me! They're quite cute.

And what a surprise, if these were 2 of her clients, to get your champion whippet back with the news that she's expecting cross breed puppies. Whoops!

 

[Cdnjennga]

LoL, OOPS! At least they are cute. I love how they have one of them stacked up lol. Adorable

We had a running joke going a couple months back when Saleen was in heat, at least we think she was - dang she's SUPER CLEAN (good girl) Howie is still intact b/c we want to collect and store him. He was very interesting in getting to know Saleen a little better which of course we didn't allow. One wonders though what it might have looked like. We spent two weeks laughing to oursevles and comming up with stupid made up breed names for the newest Tibetan Spaniel X Standard Poodle designer breed and deciding just how many millions we could charge per puppy.

Haha, we've had a joke like that too. Our PWD was in season and a jack russell who turned out to be intact took a liking to her. Nothing came close to happening, but we decided they would be called "Port-o-jacks" if puppies did occur.

My favourite combo names we came up with are the Havapoo (havanese/ poodle) and the Havashiht (havanese/ shih tzu).

 

[Cdnjennga]

How do you all handle this? Do you just smile and nod and not say anything? I would feel funny being fake and saying, nice dog, when I really don't believe it is. I'm really unsure of what I will do in this situation. I kinda feel the need to educate people, but I don't want to create enemies. It's a small town and there's only one dog park!! lol

I would probably keep my opinions to myself unless they started talking about the myths about doodles. Then I would correct them with a smile on my face, but not make a big deal out of it. I think it's best to keep your opinion on doodles to yourself once someone already has one. It's a different story if they're only considering it - then I'd be providing lots of links and stories on the myths of doodles. All's fair until the puppy's at home IMO!

 

[Cdnjennga]

I am usually polite to the doodle folks...though at that big doodle meet up some lady got really angry when they asked her if her PWD was a doodle, she kind of went off. Then when someone asked me if Flip was a labradoodle or a goldendoodle, she snapped at them too, and said "He's clearly a standard poodle, not one of your ridiculous mutts!" I just kind of meandered away.

haha, us PWD folk are touchy... Although before the doodle craze the most common question was "is that a poodle?"