Curious about 'Anti-Doodle" movement?
I hear a lot of bad talk about breeding poodles to other random breeds (yorkies, Labs, ect ect ect) What's the big push behind people AGAINST "designer breeders" and why the sudden fad? What's the story there?
Not wanting to open any cans of worms here....just honestly curious for an honest, educated opinion.
Not wanting to open any cans of worms here....just honestly curious for an honest, educated opinion.
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Besides health testing, which I'm sure a good portion of people selling doodles for top dollar DO NOT do, you also have the problem with consistency.
You never really know what your going to get, especially 1-2 years after the fact. You go into a pet store and buy this cute little doodle puppy that supposedly doesn't shed but has the personality of a Lab or Golden Retriever, and lo and behold 2 years later you have a dog that sheds and is hyperactive. There is too much inconsistency between the temperament and the looks of the produced dog. Not to mention we really don't know what problems health-wise can arise from these breeding's. IMO most aren't too nice to look at either, especially when these conflicting features of each dog come together.
I honestly don't see the point. Supposedly they were originally bred as sight dogs which don't shed, but a Poodle is perfectly capable of that job, so why not just train a Poodle? It really doesn't make any sense.
You never really know what your going to get, especially 1-2 years after the fact. You go into a pet store and buy this cute little doodle puppy that supposedly doesn't shed but has the personality of a Lab or Golden Retriever, and lo and behold 2 years later you have a dog that sheds and is hyperactive. There is too much inconsistency between the temperament and the looks of the produced dog. Not to mention we really don't know what problems health-wise can arise from these breeding's. IMO most aren't too nice to look at either, especially when these conflicting features of each dog come together.
I honestly don't see the point. Supposedly they were originally bred as sight dogs which don't shed, but a Poodle is perfectly capable of that job, so why not just train a Poodle? It really doesn't make any sense.
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The attitude of the breeders and owners is what bugs me the most. The driving force behind DD (designer dogs) is $$$$$. People are beginning to hear more and more about health testing, so the greeders answer is to claim hybrids are healthier. They all have this idea that their mutts are superior to the shelter dogs and purebreds alike. They are too lazy to research breeders and too full of themselves to consider rescue. Yet they will turn around and call someone who disagrees with DD breeding a snob. I belong to a groomer forum and many "Doodle" owners are neglectful and the breeders are flat out liars. The dogs are sold as "non-shedding" (if you mix it w/ a heavy shedder like a lab there is no way all the pups will not shed) and easy to maintain. The owners then bring a disgustingly matted dog to a groomer and demand the dog be dematted b/c "the breeder says they should never be shaved and only need to be groomed once or twice a year." Then the owners whine, when the dog looks like a poodle. Um, they are at least 1/2 Poodle, they are most certainly going to look similar.
Most people involved DDs are flat out ignorant. They use argument like "mixed breeds are healthier" and "all dogs started out as mutts." Yes all breeds we have now may have started out as a mixture, but they have been refined and those breeders had a clear goal in mind. They had clear needs for working dogs and were affected by geography. Now days no one "needs" a gun dog and if they need a herding dog, they are usually plent available. If not they're just a flight away. I honestly don't have a problem w/ people crossbreeding for working purposes though. Anotolian/pyrenees crosses are popular amongst farmers and ranchers in West Texas. (Anatolians aren't that common and Pyrs are a bit watered down.) They are bred according to working ability and sold to working homes for fair prices.
Now days, there are millions of dogs being put to sleep every year for no other reason than they don't have a home. Plenty of these dogs are DDs. In my area, there are at least 3 "doodles" for every one purebred Poodles on Petfinder. There is no reason to breed a dog unless they add something to the breed. (I feel the same way about purebreds btw.) If these DD people were serious they would come up with goals before they ever bred a dog, they would start working on a standard and starting a breed club. Yes there are a few clubs, but they were formed for the purpose of getting more money. They aren't opperated at all like real breed clubs. You also can't start a new breed by continually producing F1 (first generation) crosses.
Most people involved DDs are flat out ignorant. They use argument like "mixed breeds are healthier" and "all dogs started out as mutts." Yes all breeds we have now may have started out as a mixture, but they have been refined and those breeders had a clear goal in mind. They had clear needs for working dogs and were affected by geography. Now days no one "needs" a gun dog and if they need a herding dog, they are usually plent available. If not they're just a flight away. I honestly don't have a problem w/ people crossbreeding for working purposes though. Anotolian/pyrenees crosses are popular amongst farmers and ranchers in West Texas. (Anatolians aren't that common and Pyrs are a bit watered down.) They are bred according to working ability and sold to working homes for fair prices.
Now days, there are millions of dogs being put to sleep every year for no other reason than they don't have a home. Plenty of these dogs are DDs. In my area, there are at least 3 "doodles" for every one purebred Poodles on Petfinder. There is no reason to breed a dog unless they add something to the breed. (I feel the same way about purebreds btw.) If these DD people were serious they would come up with goals before they ever bred a dog, they would start working on a standard and starting a breed club. Yes there are a few clubs, but they were formed for the purpose of getting more money. They aren't opperated at all like real breed clubs. You also can't start a new breed by continually producing F1 (first generation) crosses.
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I so agree with this.
There's enough dogs out there already. Breed only if you can bring something positive to the breed. Otherwise speuter and just enjoy your dog as a fantastic pet.
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I like that! Speuter. It's catchy lol.I so agree with this.
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I also want to add that if the DD breeders were really interested in creating a new breed, they would quietly place most of their pups in loving pet homes(for a very small fee, if not free) and keep those that met their goals to continue their lines. Instead they start selling for top dollar from the first litter.
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I would like to add The usa Doodle people are way behind. In AU they at least have a breed club and have formed a standard they also have many generations of Doodles not just first crosses like 99.9 % of the USA breeders are doing.
I have said it once and I will say it again why breed one of the world's smartest dog to a dog that is just easy to train ? lol The poodle is perfect already.
I have said it once and I will say it again why breed one of the world's smartest dog to a dog that is just easy to train ? lol
The poodle is perfect already.There is so much misinformation out there for pet buyers to shift thru most do not bother. Most of these dogs are impulse buys. The fact that we call them DD does not help either for it makes them sound fancy. Most of these so called breeders as has been said lie to owners. As a pro groomer that has had to deal with these dogs and owners it is hard. But I make it my business to set facts straight so these people do not talk others into there misguided buying.
For one thing many never realize how big these dogs get or how hairy. Most grow bigger than parents with hair twice as long. They are higher maintanince than poodles even because of the hair type. We charge more for them than poodles too since they are such hand fulls. Unlike good poodle breeder these pups have no grooming training when they come to see us. You wonder why so many of these dogs end up n the shelter one reason is the price of their grooming the other they are wild. Many wanted a small dog and have no clue how to handle a dog the size of most doodles.
Even the smaller poodle mixes grow bigger than the parents. Multi poos are not toys by weight. When people buy these mixes they think they nonallergiy of the poodle will carry over for that is what the so called breeder told them. When it does not and then they shed real bad and are hyper as all get out people turn them into the shelter. But no one is going public with their stories saying what these breeders are doing so the cycle just turn again and again.
You want to stop it start by taking ads out in the classified telling the truth on these mixes. Something like Want a Doodle well here is what you really get..... That would get owners looking thinking. Might tick off those breeders but what can they do when you are not mentioning breeder names. It is time to hit them where it counts if they get stuck with puppies maybe they will stop breeding these mutts so much. The dog club should be doing a national info as campain against these breeders and there dogs.
For one thing many never realize how big these dogs get or how hairy. Most grow bigger than parents with hair twice as long. They are higher maintanince than poodles even because of the hair type. We charge more for them than poodles too since they are such hand fulls. Unlike good poodle breeder these pups have no grooming training when they come to see us. You wonder why so many of these dogs end up n the shelter one reason is the price of their grooming the other they are wild. Many wanted a small dog and have no clue how to handle a dog the size of most doodles.
Even the smaller poodle mixes grow bigger than the parents. Multi poos are not toys by weight. When people buy these mixes they think they nonallergiy of the poodle will carry over for that is what the so called breeder told them. When it does not and then they shed real bad and are hyper as all get out people turn them into the shelter. But no one is going public with their stories saying what these breeders are doing so the cycle just turn again and again.
You want to stop it start by taking ads out in the classified telling the truth on these mixes. Something like Want a Doodle well here is what you really get..... That would get owners looking thinking. Might tick off those breeders but what can they do when you are not mentioning breeder names. It is time to hit them where it counts if they get stuck with puppies maybe they will stop breeding these mutts so much. The dog club should be doing a national info as campain against these breeders and there dogs.
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I know many breed clubs have statements, in bold print no less, about crossbreeds. You're right though, they need to put out newspaper ads and even tv spots. I wish AKC would do more to promote responsible breeding and health testing. (Unfortunately, they seem too interested in luring back the scummy breeders that went to CKC, APRI and the like.)
Poodles are the most versatile breed there is, there is really no need to mix them w/ anything. They can be groomed to look like anything (seen the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle poodle?), so there goes the "I don't like the poodle look" argument. They are much smarter than retrievers, so there was never any reason to dilute them for sevice work. That's not JMO btw, they outscore retrievers on just about every list ranking dog intellegence and out perform them in the Obedience ring. The only other argument left is that people don't like the Poodle personality. The problem w/ that is most people have only met poorly breed poodles from unscrupulous breeders. (Often the same breeders that decided to start producing "doodles" and "poos.")
It also needs to be mentioned that many of these "doodle" breeders are the ones who have exacerbated the health issues that purebred dogs face b/c they refuse to health test and breed on a large scale. Then they bash all purebred as being unhealthy!
Poodles are the most versatile breed there is, there is really no need to mix them w/ anything. They can be groomed to look like anything (seen the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle poodle?), so there goes the "I don't like the poodle look" argument. They are much smarter than retrievers, so there was never any reason to dilute them for sevice work. That's not JMO btw, they outscore retrievers on just about every list ranking dog intellegence and out perform them in the Obedience ring. The only other argument left is that people don't like the Poodle personality. The problem w/ that is most people have only met poorly breed poodles from unscrupulous breeders. (Often the same breeders that decided to start producing "doodles" and "poos.")
It also needs to be mentioned that many of these "doodle" breeders are the ones who have exacerbated the health issues that purebred dogs face b/c they refuse to health test and breed on a large scale. Then they bash all purebred as being unhealthy!
I couldn't help but google the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle" picture....
http://artflutter.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-poodle/
I think that a lot of the issues people have with "Just getting a poodle" is because...well...
there is a stigma that comes along with Poodles. People imagine them as the sissy looking little creature on their grandma's poodle skirts. It's not exactly a "big scary/tough/manly" dog.
when I told my boyfriend I was getting a mini poodle....I thought he was going to DIE. He said that he wasn't going to be seen in public with a poodle...
Of course, once he met Helmet and got to see his personality and how smart he was, my boyfriend fell in love. I'm not sure how comon that story is....but it really does seem like most people are just staying clear of the stigma. They don't realize that you can have a poodle and NOT let it look like it came off a poodle skirt in from the 50's.
JMO
http://artflutter.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-poodle/
I think that a lot of the issues people have with "Just getting a poodle" is because...well...
there is a stigma that comes along with Poodles. People imagine them as the sissy looking little creature on their grandma's poodle skirts. It's not exactly a "big scary/tough/manly" dog.
when I told my boyfriend I was getting a mini poodle....I thought he was going to DIE. He said that he wasn't going to be seen in public with a poodle...
Of course, once he met Helmet and got to see his personality and how smart he was, my boyfriend fell in love. I'm not sure how comon that story is....but it really does seem like most people are just staying clear of the stigma. They don't realize that you can have a poodle and NOT let it look like it came off a poodle skirt in from the 50's.
JMO
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That "turtle's" a trip, isn't she? Honestly though, how do "doodles" differ? They either look like swamp thing or a teddy bear. Neither is manly or macho. Check out Todd's dog Moose, I think he looks fairly "manly." His clip is definately low maintenence. A Poodle can be kept in the same clip most "doodles are supposed to kept in" if their owner is dedicated to brushing. As Cybercat said, Poodle coats are easier to maintain anyway. I don't have much respect for anyone who wants a dog b/c it's macho anyway. I guess being a responsible Rottweiler owner makes me more sensitive to those that get a dog b/c it looks tough. I guess Poodles do have a stigma, but I think putting your gf's happiness above your ego is very manly. Kudos to your bf!
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All doodles look the same, imo, they just come in different sizes.
Back in the day, they didn't call them designer breeds, they called them mutts and accidents x)
Back in the day, they didn't call them designer breeds, they called them mutts and accidents x)
Thats what I still see them as and people get offendede when they say, shih-pom-malti-chin-poo and I go OH a mutt...
I have a French bulldog without a pedigree she doesn't conform to the standard AT ALL (we think she's crossed with a boston), I tell people she's a mutt, and they go ya but what kind... Ugh... I dont know thats why I'm calling her a MUTT... *sigh*
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I still insist I have the best "doodles". They've even ended up in National Dog of Australia mag.
Carole
Carole
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LMAO I saw those pictures on google that is so cute and cool
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Until 6 weeks ago I had only a little knowledge of the Doodle craze. Then I decided to try to adopt a rescue poodle and ended up with a foster doodle. So my internet search into this craze started and I am now an avowed anti-doodlist. See , the name is so cute it's even adorable when used derogatorily.
My biggest problem is the huge profits being made from mutts that will have little of the qualities claimed on their behalf. Then they end up another abandonded dog. Go on to the doodle sites. Most of the happy poodle mix owners claim theirs do not shed or do so very little. In fact, in F1s only about a third turn out to be nonshedders. What happens to the rest? Maybe they aren't well-loved enough to have enthusiastic blog writers. Maybe they end up with rescue organizations (the lucky ones) or just taken to the local municipal facility.
My foster came to me with absolutely no social skills whatsoever. She had obviously never been loved by anyone. She was probably a very adorable puppy that grew up to be an awkard wild adolescent that was starting to shed, then abandoned to the streets of Phoenix to fend for herself in the middle of summer. I picked up a skinny, scared, stinky, tick-infested girl with blistered pads that peed whenever anyone got close to her and had to be carried out to the car because she was too frightened to get up out of her submissived rollover.
Even the doodle rescue groups are so enamored of their "breed" they have a hard time presenting them objectively. I read over and over again about 8, 9, 10 month old puppies that don't shed. I've said it there and I will say it here. Puppies don't shed. My Australian Shepherd never shed as a puppy either. It wasn't until he was 18 months that I had to start coping with massive amounts of hair everywhere (and a huge investment in lint rollers!).
The breeders/sellers lie about shedding, lie about their non-odor, lie about the supposed healthier stock, lie about the reasons they have to charge so much for a mutt. They often lie to obtain breeding stock. They lie when they say they are not doing it for the money.
I am anti doodle because there is so much profit in selling these mutts that there will always be unscrupulous and just plain stupid people who will continue to fill our shelters with their castoffs. And as long as their proponents perpetuate the lies too many lives will be created that end up tragically.
My biggest problem is the huge profits being made from mutts that will have little of the qualities claimed on their behalf. Then they end up another abandonded dog. Go on to the doodle sites. Most of the happy poodle mix owners claim theirs do not shed or do so very little. In fact, in F1s only about a third turn out to be nonshedders. What happens to the rest? Maybe they aren't well-loved enough to have enthusiastic blog writers. Maybe they end up with rescue organizations (the lucky ones) or just taken to the local municipal facility.
My foster came to me with absolutely no social skills whatsoever. She had obviously never been loved by anyone. She was probably a very adorable puppy that grew up to be an awkard wild adolescent that was starting to shed, then abandoned to the streets of Phoenix to fend for herself in the middle of summer. I picked up a skinny, scared, stinky, tick-infested girl with blistered pads that peed whenever anyone got close to her and had to be carried out to the car because she was too frightened to get up out of her submissived rollover.
Even the doodle rescue groups are so enamored of their "breed" they have a hard time presenting them objectively. I read over and over again about 8, 9, 10 month old puppies that don't shed. I've said it there and I will say it here. Puppies don't shed. My Australian Shepherd never shed as a puppy either. It wasn't until he was 18 months that I had to start coping with massive amounts of hair everywhere (and a huge investment in lint rollers!).
The breeders/sellers lie about shedding, lie about their non-odor, lie about the supposed healthier stock, lie about the reasons they have to charge so much for a mutt. They often lie to obtain breeding stock. They lie when they say they are not doing it for the money.
I am anti doodle because there is so much profit in selling these mutts that there will always be unscrupulous and just plain stupid people who will continue to fill our shelters with their castoffs. And as long as their proponents perpetuate the lies too many lives will be created that end up tragically.
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Now THAT's a doodle I'd pay top dollar for :wink:
But puppylove has also made a fantastic point, and this is how most doodles will end up. Abandoned, scared, skinny, and lacking in social skills. It's a sad reality. I wish those celebrities like Eva Longoria and all those others who really set the "doodle" craze off understood the type of damage they are doing.
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