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What makes you think she is Merle?
While it is more desirable for reds to have black pigment, there are plenty with liver. Hard to tell for sure on a photo, but her eyes look hazel? It can take a while for the eyes to fully darken, ime the lighter they are the longer it can take. As a liver-pigmented red she would be expected to have eye color on the lighter side (ie not dark brown).
I am partial to black pigmented dogs but she is super cute! Love partis!
 

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Did she have a merle parent? In my opinion she has nothing to suggest merle in her, though it is hidden in red pigmented dogs.
 

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Although if you were told you would get health testing and didn't, maybe you were lied to in that regard. Do you know where the testing was supposed to have been done? Can you look it up that way?
Does she have any Merle in her background? That's typically a sign there was some other breed involved at some point down the line....
Although there is a lot of controversy about that!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
What makes you think she is Merle?
While it is more desirable for reds to have black pigment, there are plenty with liver. Hard to tell for sure on a photo, but her eyes look hazel? It can take a while for the eyes to fully darken, ime the lighter they are the longer it can take. As a liver-pigmented red she would be expected to have eye color on the lighter side (ie not dark brown).
I am partial to black pigmented dogs but she is super cute! Love partis!
I followed her lineage back on both sides thru the akc website and there are "blue and black" listed on there. I'm hoping the test comes back mm because I know merle can't be carried.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
She looks like such a sweetheart. What does her breeder say when you ask about those missing records?
Dodged them. She is offering to lay for merle testing though which is good. Rocking Y is back in her pedigree which concerns me tho
 

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Although if you were told you would get health testing and didn't, maybe you were lied to in that regard. Do you know where the testing was supposed to have been done? Can you look it up that way?
Does she have any Merle in her background? That's typically a sign there was some other breed involved at some point down the line....
Although there is a lot of controversy about that!
Both sides have apparent merle way back 7 gens. Rocking Y and KitSue
 

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Oh yikes... Rocking Y does seem to breed merle dogs very irresponsibly. Breeding merles is not good but breeding merles and reds... seems like a recipe for disaster.

That said, since you have the dog already and are not asking for advice on choosing a breeder... what are your concerns about her being cryptic merle? If cryptic it should not affect her health in any way.
 

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I love parti poodles, and I love amber eyes. I think she's gorgeous.

You said in another thread that you were interested in breeding her. I think the next question is "What is the goal of the breeding program?" If you have your heart set on showing in conformation classes, then this is probably not the right dog to found your line. Even though I personally love her looks, they are not breed standard. The merle up the family tree would also give me pause, as merle cannot be registered in either AKC or UKC. Given the time and cost of showing, I would prefer to put the investment into a dog with fewer complications.

However, these issues wouldn't be a deal breaker if you are interested in dog sports. Any registered dog can compete in AKC sports, and unregistered dogs can compete through the Canine Partners program.
 

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Just looks like a brown based red/white parti. Nothing says merle to me, although, as everyone's said, red does hide it.

I don't know Rocking Y, but Kit Sue is in about every parti pedigree out there, and I don't know of any merles that she produced.

Being registered "black and blue" could be brindle (which kit sue did have) or even phantom. Half of the poodles on akc are probably registered with wrong colors because of color changes. I've run across a lot of them and just expect that. Nobody's fault.

I don't know any breeders who give dna health and color testing on each individual puppy. They test the parents. If the parents are clear, then puppies will be clear. If the breeder said you were receiving testing on your individual puppy then they should have followed through with that, but I wonder if there just wasn't a misunderstanding on that.

As Raindrop said, if this is just a pet, then even if she is cryptic merle it won't affect her health in any way. If she is merle and akc registered then that is a problem because someone down the line lied to akc and your pedigree is wrong anyway. And, of course if you're going to breed her then cryptic merle is something you'd need to know.

Other than that - Shes a gorgeous puppy. Red and white parti is so popular right now. I'm sure you can easily find someone to give her a great home if you decide not to keep her, or just send her to me. :)

Happy New Year Everyone!
 

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I don't know any breeders who give dna health and color testing on each individual puppy. They test the parents. If the parents are clear, then puppies will be clear. If the breeder said you were receiving testing on your individual puppy then they should have followed through with that, but I wonder if there just wasn't a misunderstanding on that
Most of the tests for genetic diseases cannot be done on puppies. Most people breeding poodles are not likely to pay for color testing. While it is more likely that a puppy will be clear of genetic diseases if its parents are clear, it is better to see at least 3 generations that have tested clear.
 

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Most of the tests for genetic diseases cannot be done on puppies. Most people breeding poodles are not likely to pay for color testing. While it is more likely that a puppy will be clear of genetic diseases if its parents are clear, it is better to see at least 3 generations that have tested clear.
Certainly the phenotypic tests (heart, hips, eyes, etc) can't be done on puppies, but the dna tests can be done at any age (at least the ones from Embark).
It does seem unlikely that breeders would do the testing on all their pups though, I agree. Although I understand there are 'breeder packages' for bulk tests.
 

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Our girl's eyes are about the same! They are only starting to change now, she is 16 weeks old. She is a silver beige also with liver points. I wouldn't worry about the eyes. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Our girl's eyes are about the same! They are only starting to change now, she is 16 weeks old. She is a silver beige also with liver points. I wouldn't worry about the eyes. :)
Thank you - I'm afraid we have discovered merle in the lineage on both sides
 

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Just looks like a brown based red/white parti. Nothing says merle to me, although, as everyone's said, red does hide it.

I don't know Rocking Y, but Kit Sue is in about every parti pedigree out there, and I don't know of any merles that she produced.

Being registered "black and blue" could be brindle (which kit sue did have) or even phantom. Half of the poodles on akc are probably registered with wrong colors because of color changes. I've run across a lot of them and just expect that. Nobody's fault.

I don't know any breeders who give dna health and color testing on each individual puppy. They test the parents. If the parents are clear, then puppies will be clear. If the breeder said you were receiving testing on your individual puppy then they should have followed through with that, but I wonder if there just wasn't a misunderstanding on that.

As Raindrop said, if this is just a pet, then even if she is cryptic merle it won't affect her health in any way. If she is merle and akc registered then that is a problem because someone down the line lied to akc and your pedigree is wrong anyway. And, of course if you're going to breed her then cryptic merle is something you'd need to know.

Other than that - Shes a gorgeous puppy. Red and white parti is so popular right now. I'm sure you can easily find someone to give her a great home if you decide not to keep her, or just send her to me. :)

Happy New Year Everyone!
Thank you for the gracious reply. The name "merle" was even in the name on the sires side so we know there is merle. She also did not send the dams health testing with the flight nanny - we have discovered the dam was 6 months when bred 😔. Many many lies and we are putting the pieces together.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I love parti poodles, and I love amber eyes. I think she's gorgeous.

You said in another thread that you were interested in breeding her. I think the next question is "What is the goal of the breeding program?" If you have your heart set on showing in conformation classes, then this is probably not the right dog to found your line. Even though I personally love her looks, they are not breed standard. The merle up the family tree would also give me pause, as merle cannot be registered in either AKC or UKC. Given the time and cost of showing, I would prefer to put the investment into a dog with fewer complications.

However, these issues wouldn't be a deal breaker if you are interested in dog sports. Any registered dog can compete in AKC sports, and unregistered dogs can compete through the Canine Partners program.
We wanted a healthy red parti female to breed - as of right now we will not show. There is merle in her lineage and the breeder did not send the dams health papers - come to find out the dam was just born in February 😔
 

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Oh yikes... Rocking Y does seem to breed merle dogs very irresponsibly. Breeding merles is not good but breeding merles and reds... seems like a recipe for disaster.

That said, since you have the dog already and are not asking for advice on choosing a breeder... what are your concerns about her being cryptic merle? If cryptic it should not affect her health in any way.
We did plan to breed her, but we cannot in good consci
Did she have a merle parent? In my opinion she has nothing to suggest merle in her, though it is hidden in red pigmented dogs.
There seems to be merle on both sides, unfortunately. Dam on her website is listed as "tri" but is red/white parti. The dam on her pedigree we received is a different dam and the birthdays listed is 2.20.
 
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