[lehtinen]

the place looks great on website and they seem to have a variety....michele

 

[lily cd re]

They have too many dogs in the opinion of many here. Search older posts and threads on PF. You will see some old recommendations and newer cautions.

Looke at this thread for great advice on selecting a really good breeder. https://www.poodleforum.com/threads/buying-a-puppy-safely-the-basics.33522/

 

[PeggyTheParti]

Am I reading the website right — SIX October litters????

And the way they describe their "retiring breeders" makes me wonder how socialized the puppies would be.

 

[MaizieFrosty]

Crabapple is HORRIBLE.

 

[Streetcar]

Remember, the website of someone who has nothing better to do than sell sell sell can be super fancy, extra pretty, and highly appealing.

While the website of a scholar or another devoted to a higher calling and who must work to support his/her theses with science and evidence may not be as up to date, or utilize the newest technology.

Many will be well advised to consider this concept with regards to dog breeders as well ?.

 

[PeggyTheParti]

I just read some scathing things about this breeder from a 2016 Poodle Forum thread. I can't believe they're still in business. Makes my stomach hurt

 

[kontiki]

NO....

 

[lehtinen]

I just read some scathing things about this breeder from a 2016 Poodle Forum thread. I can't believe they're still in business. Makes my stomach hurt

They are really alive and well!!! Still breeding and from what I have learned, producing many litters, and dogs are in pens which really surprised me as their website looks wonderful and got the idea that they are all in a big wonderful bldg in and out, playing with each other all the time....but not true i guess --have not been there and won't as i got my poodle from the local shelter here.

 

[JBM]

We would give Arlene Mills and Crabapple Downs less than 1 Star if the rating system allowed. Do not purchase your Standard Poodle from her. We made a long drive to Colebrook, NH very excited about picking up our beautiful parti-colored pup whom Arlene had named Freckles. He was from the the Flora Dora-Fraser line. Things seemed somewhat off from the beginning. He was one of the older puppies she had. After seeing the very primitive dog pen areas and learning according to Arlene, there were 75 poodle parents and puppies on the property, we were somewhat reluctant to take Freckles. But, we thought, "How can we leave him here?" He was a cute puppy and after some hesitation, we took him. Arlene sent us home with Metronidazole tablets for diarrhea, which she anticipated he may have from leaving a secluded, sheltered environment. He got carsick 4 times on the way home to Massachusetts. He did, in fact, have diarrhea. He had a vet appointment the day after we got him, and I remember clearly the vet saying, "Healthy puppies don't have diarrhea or need Metronidazole, what did the breeder say was the problem, what vet prescribed it, can you contact her and see why?" Freckles was extremely timid, fearful and shy, and I also recall the vet saying, "You're going to have your hands full with him, he's not a normal happy, tail-wagging, happy go lucky puppy." Freckles was afraid of his own shadow from the beginning and that never went away. A floating leaf would send him scurrying. He was mortified by friendly strangers who wanted to meet him. He did bond with us and was sweet, but he it took great patience and he remained extremely skittish and OCD his entire short life, even with several puppy and obedience classes and socialization attempts. It was his health that was truly his biggest problem. Immediately, we noticed he couldn't have a bowel movement without squat-walking. He would literally leave a trail. It was the only way he could go to the bathroom. Freckles was always had diarrhea. His condition according to the vet was not parasitic. He was on prescription food often to bulk up his stools. When he 2, he began to have eye infections and redness of the conjunctiva. During an exam, our vet noticed his eyelids were rolling inward. He explained it was is a genetic condition. As a result, Freckles lower eyelids were being pulled downward and the inward rolling was causing his fur to scratch his eyeballs. He had to see an eye specialist in Boston and required 2 surgeries. The surgeon reiterated to us that this was a genetic condition. At 3, Freckles had 4 episodes of massive, uncontrollable diarrhea. He was also losing weight. The vet sent him back to Boston, this time to a gastrointestinal specialist. After scoping him, we learned he had advanced cancer - lymphoma of his stomach and intestines. Because he was so young and we were told that dogs handle treatment much better than humans, let alone that we were not ready to say goodbye, we opted for a round of chemotherapy. Freckles' chemotherapy was well-tolerated. He re-gained weight, his stools normalized, he was able to go for long walks, and other than losing all his hair, which did grow back, he seemed like himself. Just as the oncologist predicted though, his symptoms and cancer came back at 13 months after remission. We made the heartbreaking decision to "let him go" then. No more chemotherapy because with his cancer, it would not cure him. We were so sad. What burned us badly were a few things. Obviously, the health problems. But, when I called Arlene to let her know, she had the audacity to say it was something that happened to Freckles as a result of the food we fed him, or vaccinating, or fertilizing the grass in our yard. When I related our vet and oncologist indicated it was genetic, she admitted, there had been 1 case of lymphoma in one of the breeding lines. Subsequently, while at the specialty animal hospital, I met several other standard poodles will illnesses and their owners, and guess what, they came from Crabapple Downs. Freckles was my 4th Standard Poodle. We treat our dogs like family members. They lack for nothing, routinely see the vet and have had pet health insurance. All of them lived to be 12-15 years old. What happened to Freckles was not related to anything we did. That comment was just so offensive. Avoid the heartbreak, no matter how cute the puppy, or all the hype you hear about the reunions at Poodle Mountain, do yourself a huge favor, don't press your luck or your finances on costly surgeries and medical treatment, just go to a reputable breeder for your puppy. It still haunts me to this day what happened to Freckles. He died just after he turned 5.

 

[Ava.]

I'm so sorry that you had to learn about irresponsible breeders in such a harsh way . I am so sorry about your Freckles.

 

[Rose n Poos]

We would give Arlene Mills and Crabapple Downs less than 1 Star if the rating system allowed. Do not purchase your Standard Poodle from her. We made a long drive to Colebrook, NH very excited about picking up our beautiful parti-colored pup whom Arlene had named Freckles. He was from the the Flora Dora-Fraser line. Things seemed somewhat off from the beginning. He was one of the older puppies she had. After seeing the very primitive dog pen areas and learning according to Arlene, there were 75 poodle parents and puppies on the property, we were somewhat reluctant to take Freckles. But, we thought, "How can we leave him here?" He was a cute puppy and after some hesitation, we took him. Arlene sent us home with Metronidazole tablets for diarrhea, which she anticipated he may have from leaving a secluded, sheltered environment. He got carsick 4 times on the way home to Massachusetts. He did, in fact, have diarrhea. He had a vet appointment the day after we got him, and I remember clearly the vet saying, "Healthy puppies don't have diarrhea or need Metronidazole, what did the breeder say was the problem, what vet prescribed it, can you contact her and see why?" Freckles was extremely timid, fearful and shy, and I also recall the vet saying, "You're going to have your hands full with him, he's not a normal happy, tail-wagging, happy go lucky puppy." Freckles was afraid of his own shadow from the beginning and that never went away. A floating leaf would send him scurrying. He was mortified by friendly strangers who wanted to meet him. He did bond with us and was sweet, but he it took great patience and he remained extremely skittish and OCD his entire short life, even with several puppy and obedience classes and socialization attempts. It was his health that was truly his biggest problem. Immediately, we noticed he couldn't have a bowel movement without squat-walking. He would literally leave a trail. It was the only way he could go to the bathroom. Freckles was always had diarrhea. His condition according to the vet was not parasitic. He was on prescription food often to bulk up his stools. When he 2, he began to have eye infections and redness of the conjunctiva. During an exam, our vet noticed his eyelids were rolling inward. He explained it was is a genetic condition. As a result, Freckles lower eyelids were being pulled downward and the inward rolling was causing his fur to scratch his eyeballs. He had to see an eye specialist in Boston and required 2 surgeries. The surgeon reiterated to us that this was a genetic condition. At 3, Freckles had 4 episodes of massive, uncontrollable diarrhea. He was also losing weight. The vet sent him back to Boston, this time to a gastrointestinal specialist. After scoping him, we learned he had advanced cancer - lymphoma of his stomach and intestines. Because he was so young and we were told that dogs handle treatment much better than humans, let alone that we were not ready to say goodbye, we opted for a round of chemotherapy. Freckles' chemotherapy was well-tolerated. He re-gained weight, his stools normalized, he was able to go for long walks, and other than losing all his hair, which did grow back, he seemed like himself. Just as the oncologist predicted though, his symptoms and cancer came back at 13 months after remission. We made the heartbreaking decision to "let him go" then. No more chemotherapy because with his cancer, it would not cure him. We were so sad. What burned us badly were a few things. Obviously, the health problems. But, when I called Arlene to let her know, she had the audacity to say it was something that happened to Freckles as a result of the food we fed him, or vaccinating, or fertilizing the grass in our yard. When I related our vet and oncologist indicated it was genetic, she admitted, there had been 1 case of lymphoma in one of the breeding lines. Subsequently, while at the specialty animal hospital, I met several other standard poodles will illnesses and their owners, and guess what, they came from Crabapple Downs. Freckles was my 4th Standard Poodle. We treat our dogs like family members. They lack for nothing, routinely see the vet and have had pet health insurance. All of them lived to be 12-15 years old. What happened to Freckles was not related to anything we did. That comment was just so offensive. Avoid the heartbreak, no matter how cute the puppy, or all the hype you hear about the reunions at Poodle Mountain, do yourself a huge favor, don't press your luck or your finances on costly surgeries and medical treatment, just go to a reputable breeder for your puppy. It still haunts me to this day what happened to Freckles. He died just after he turned 5.

I'm so sorry to hear your heartbreaking story. As hard as all this has been, it's such a blessing that Freckles had you for his family, and you'll have that love always in your heart.

 

[JBM]

I'm so sorry to hear your heartbreaking story. As hard as all this has been, it's such a blessing that Freckles had you for his family, and you'll have that love always in your heart.

Thank you for such kind words.

 

[Rose n Poos]

You're welcome. We'll be here.

 

[Liz]

I'm so sorry to read this, JBM. Thank you for sharing Freckles' story. There's a poodle rescue in the SE still taking her dogs and bailing her out.

 

[lily cd re]

I'm so sorry to read this, JBM. Thank you for sharing Freckles' story. There's a poodle rescue in the SE still taking her dogs and bailing her out.

I am sorry to hear she is supported by a rescue to this day. The only way to stop a situation as is reported here is to give no market opportunity.

 

[Johanna]

We would give Arlene Mills and Crabapple Downs less than 1 Star if the rating system allowed. Do not purchase your Standard Poodle from her.

I am so, so sorry you had such a terrible experience. I am even more sorry for the poor dogs. It might be useful to report her to AKC if the conditions at her place are not good. All AKC can do is withdraw registration privileges, but that might be a good start. Reporting to ASPCA is an option, too, if the conditions are bad.

 

[LLC]

Bought our standard poodle from Crabapple 10 years ago and he has been the delight of our lives. This forum verifies our concerns about going back for a second poodle. We are looking for moyen poodle from a good breeder in New England. Any suggestions.

 

[Liz]

We are looking for moyen poodle from a good breeder in New England. Any suggestions.

We have many members in your region. Rather than tack onto this thread, you may have better luck starting a new thread and letting people know that you're looking for a small standard in New England (the moyen/klein is not a recognized size in the US).

 

[kontiki]

We have many members in your region. Rather than tack onto this thread, you may have better luck starting a new thread and letting people know that you're looking for a small standard in New England (the moyen/klein is not a recognized size in the US).

Yes, Moyen/Klein is NOT a recognized size in the US. So if anyone is advertising as such, beware. I am so glad you are looking elsewhere, and very glad that your first dog actually worked out. If it were me I would be willing to go far beyond New England. Best of luck for sure

 

[cowpony]

I'm not aware of anyone in New England currently breeding true moyens. I've heard Doe Valley sometimes produces small standards; they are a well regarded Massachusetts kennel.

Outside New England probably the top regarded Moyen breeder would be Karbit in Texas. Great Lakes Kennel in Michigan also has a Moyen program; I don't know much about it other than it exists. Moonrise in South Carolina occasionally produces Moyen-sized dogs and seems to be pretty serious about health testing. Noir in Missouri also seems to produce Moyens; it's another kennel I don't know much about other than it exists.