Poodle Forum banner
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Note: I’m posting this here even though it doesn’t involve a poodle, just in case it’s helpful to anyone else who’s bringing home a puppy during these challenging times. Identifying details have been changed for privacy.


My poor friend.

He’s never had a dog of his own, and has always wanted one. So in January he and his family took the plunge and brought home a young small breed puppy from questionable “re-homing” origins. (Unfortunate, yes, but what’s done is done.) We’ll call the puppy Toto.

Toto’s first week at home, the region was in lockdown. Plus, there was a blizzard (aka a potty training nightmare) so things already weren’t going great when he started going physically downhill and required emergency treatment for giardia. Weeks later, the vet now suspects he’s reinfected himself, and so this poor puppy is beginning a second round of treatment. The vet has also said Toto will need to begin his vaccination schedule all over again once the giardia is confirmed gone, which could take months.

My friend’s been told the earliest Toto can possibly go out in public is April, at which point he’ll be 7 months old. He will have never interacted with another dog (beyond whatever interactions he may have had before my friend brought him home), not to mention the rest of the scary/fun/exciting things that make up our world.

What’s breaking my heart the most is that I asked if Toto’s a confident little guy and my friend couldn’t answer because he and his wife honestly don’t know. They are complete novices. How many stories like this are playing out all around the world right now?

Before the giardia diagnosis, they’d signed up for an online puppy training course I recommended and were committed to learning while socializing him as best they could. But now what?

I’ve given them a list of socialization activities they can do with Toto at home—between constant disinfecting, working from home, and supervising their school-age children—but he literally cannot leave their postage stamp of a yard until he’s cleared of giardia. And even then he will be considered high-risk until he’s completed a second vaccination schedule.

I recommended my friend get in touch with a certified behaviourist to start working out a proper socialization plan. He is very much open to receiving professional help and immediately reached out to the behaviourist who’s helping me with Peggy’s resource guarding. Love him for that. He lives thousands of miles away, but luckily many animal professionals are consulting remotely right now.

Is there anything else I can suggest?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,709 Posts
I don't have a whole lot to offer other than that really really sucks. I'm so sorry for them. Having your first dog is hard enough without extra trouble.

I would say I'd get a different vet if they're requiring him to go through a full vaccination schedule. For an older dog the full course of vaccines would not be necessary because the mother dog's antibodies won't block the vaccine anymore. I would guess he will only need one dose (at most two) to achieve full immunity. I believe recommendations are that dogs over 16 weeks just get a single dose. They can always have him titer tested to ensure he is immune. A more progressive vet that is up to date with current research is likely to give better advice.

Here is where I checked on vaccination schedules
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,211 Posts
Note: I’m posting this here even though it doesn’t involve a poodle, just in case it’s helpful to anyone else who’s bringing home a puppy during these challenging times. Identifying details have been changed for privacy.


My poor friend.

He’s never had a dog of his own, and has always wanted one. So in January he and his family took the plunge and brought home a young small breed puppy from questionable “re-homing” origins. (Unfortunate, yes, but what’s done is done.) We’ll call the puppy Toto.

Toto’s first week at home, the region was in lockdown. Plus, there was a blizzard (aka a potty training nightmare) so things already weren’t going great when he started going physically downhill and required emergency treatment for giardia. Weeks later, the vet now suspects he’s reinfected himself, and so this poor puppy is beginning a second round of treatment. The vet has also said Toto will need to begin his vaccination schedule all over again once the giardia is confirmed gone, which could take months.

My friend’s been told the earliest Toto can possibly go out in public is April, at which point he’ll be 7 months old. He will have never interacted with another dog (beyond whatever interactions he may have had before my friend brought him home), not to mention the rest of the scary/fun/exciting things that make up our world.

What’s breaking my heart the most is that I asked if Toto’s a confident little guy and my friend couldn’t answer because he and his wife honestly don’t know. They are complete novices. How many stories like this are playing out all around the world right now?

Before the giardia diagnosis, they’d signed up for an online puppy training course I recommended and were committed to learning while socializing him as best they could. But now what?

I’ve given them a list of socialization activities they can do with Toto at home—between constant disinfecting, working from home, and supervising their school-age children—but he literally cannot leave their postage stamp of a yard until he’s cleared of giardia. And even then he will be considered high-risk until he’s completed a second vaccination schedule.

I recommended my friend get in touch with a certified behaviourist to start working out a proper socialization plan. He is very much open to receiving professional help and immediately reached out to the behaviourist who’s helping me with Peggy’s resource guarding. Love him for that. He lives thousands of miles away, but luckily many animal professionals are consulting remotely right now.

Is there anything else I can suggest?
How big is Toto? I'm dual tracking here: thinking separately around management vs fixing.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
How big is Toto? I'm dual tracking here: thinking separately around management vs fixing.
Based on photos, I believe he’s a shih-tzu. They have no information on his parents at all. He could be a mix. But he’s definitely lap-sized.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't have a whole lot to offer other than that really really sucks. I'm so sorry for them. Having your first dog is hard enough without extra trouble.

I would say I'd get a different vet if they're requiring him to go through a full vaccination schedule. For an older dog the full course of vaccines would not be necessary because the mother dog's antibodies won't block the vaccine anymore. I would guess he will only need one dose (at most two) to achieve full immunity. I believe recommendations are that dogs over 16 weeks just get a single dose. They can always have him titer tested to ensure he is immune. A more progressive vet that is up to date with current research is likely to give better advice.

Here is where I checked on vaccination schedules
Thanks for this. I’ve recommended they seek the opinion of a more progressive vet. I don’t think they even know with complete certainty how old Toto is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
703 Posts
Sending your friend my best wishes. I hurt for all of those raising puppies during this time, its hard enough without these challenges :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
What a tough situation. It sounds like they are doing a lot of the right things and working with a trainer.
I would also recommend desensitizing him to outdoor sounds and other dog noises with YouTube. Playing nose games and training can help build his confidence which goes a long way as well.

If it helps you feel better, my pup was just over 6 months old when I brought him home and he was severely undersocialized. It took time and patience, but he is very well adjusted now at 15 months. While it is not ideal to start late, it doesn't mean he can't get there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
My last puppy, Faith the border collie, had giardia. This may be why it's taken me fifteen years to get another puppy. It's an incredible amount of work, and yes, you're so busy cooking chicken and rice and trying to keep them alive that it's very easy to neglect socialization. Even without a pandemic going on.
But why the repeat vaccines? My vet never suggested such a thing.
Oh, yeah, ETA: Aoife (pictued at left) showed up on my farm at around 10 months old severely undersocialized. As in, could not see another dog, no matter how far away, without having a major meltdown.
It took a long time. Like years. Of daily walks and hiding in shrubbery or doing whatever it took to gradually stretch her comfort zone. I was extra-cautious because Aoife weighs 80 lbs and thinks the best defense is a good offense. So we took it very slowly.
But now, she plays with her dog housemate, a very submissive Brittany, and she can walk past another leashed dog most times without even noticing its existence.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,211 Posts
Based on photos, I believe he’s a shih-tzu. They have no information on his parents at all. He could be a mix. But he’s definitely lap-sized.
I was wondering if they might be able to use a dog stroller to start getting him out into the world. It would allow him to observe things from a safe distance. Definitely not a cure for being poorly socialized, but it would reduce the likelihood of a bad interaction that could set him further back.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What a tough situation. It sounds like they are doing a lot of the right things and working with a trainer.
I would also recommend desensitizing him to outdoor sounds and other dog noises with YouTube. Playing nose games and training can help build his confidence which goes a long way as well.

If it helps you feel better, my pup was just over 6 months old when I brought him home and he was severely undersocialized. It took time and patience, but he is very well adjusted now at 15 months. While it is not ideal to start late, it doesn't mean he can't get there.
This is an encouraging story. Thank you. :) I think, too, of all the rescue situations that turn out well. I think a good, solid temperament plus an engaged owner can overcome so many obstacles.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
My last puppy, Faith the border collie, had giardia. This may be why it's taken me fifteen years to get another puppy. It's an incredible amount of work, and yes, you're so busy cooking chicken and rice and trying to keep them alive that it's very easy to neglect socialization. Even without a pandemic going on.
But why the repeat vaccines? My vet never suggested such a thing.
Oh, yeah, ETA: Aoife (pictued at left) showed up on my farm at around 10 months old severely undersocialized. As in, could not see another dog, no matter how far away, without having a major meltdown.
It took a long time. Like years. Of daily walks and hiding in shrubbery or doing whatever it took to gradually stretch her comfort zone. I was extra-cautious because Aoife weighs 80 lbs and thinks the best defense is a good offense. So we took it very slowly.
But now, she plays with her dog housemate, a very submissive Brittany, and she can walk past another leashed dog most times without even noticing its existence.
Thanks for sharing your girls’ stories.

I’m not very clear on the vaccination situation. When I inquired further, he said their goal right now is to get a negative giardia test. At that point they’ll revisit the vaccination discussion. Maybe I’ll research vets in their area to suggest one that looks more progressive. They have plenty of options.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I was wondering if they might be able to use a dog stroller to start getting him out into the world. It would allow him to observe things from a safe distance. Definitely not a cure for being poorly socialized, but it would reduce the likelihood of a bad interaction that could set him further back.
That’s a good idea. Just being exposed to the sights, sounds, and smells of the busy city they live in would be valuable.

When Gracie could no longer go for walks, a wagon allowed her to keep participating in daily activities and stay engaged. And a dog stroller would have the added bonus of mesh to prevent escape or interaction with passing dogs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,323 Posts
Oh, I just read what Giardia is.. that would be really stressful and tough. I don't even know what to say. I know what it feels like to be stressed and overwhelemed and in a situation that you didn't sign up for that is currently your reality.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,347 Posts
I have had a puppy come to me with giardia from a very experienced breeder. Her brother/littermate came with her on the plane to another family. He did not have giardia. We doctored her for 3 months with round after round of metronidazole and still she had it. I changed vets to someone who listened carefully to my statement that the other vet said “ONLY metronidazole works” and who refused to try any other treatment. The new vet rolled his eyes, gave me 3 packets of Panacur to give, one packet each day three days in a row. Then we waited a week and repeated the three days of treatment and the nightmare was over. Iris was 9 weeks old when she came to me. We gave her only her rabies vaccination as her others were already done. During this whole time I was determined to socialize her. To keep her safe and other dogs too I would take a clean bath towel with me to put into a shopping cart and she would sit on that and ride around the stores taking in the sights and sounds and meeting people. We went to Home Depot, Lowe’s, Home Goods, TJMax and a local pet friendly sporting goods store. We went to a different store every 3-4 days...we purposely stayed away from pet stores. Her bath towel got washed after each outing. By the time we had her healthy she was used to going places and meeting new people. We used YouTube videos to practice basic skills, until we could go to classes. Find another vet for your friend, someone who will try something different than what has already been done. Hint....Panacur is available without prescription in pet stores and on Amazon. They should Discuss with a vet before using It. Giardia is stubborn to get rid of but once they conquer this they can do anything!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I have had a puppy come to me with giardia from a very experienced breeder. Her brother/littermate came with her on the plane to another family. He did not have giardia. We doctored her for 3 months with round after round of metronidazole and still she had it. I changed vets to someone who listened carefully to my statement that the other vet said “ONLY metronidazole works” and who refused to try any other treatment. The new vet rolled his eyes, gave me 3 packets of Panacur to give, one packet each day three days in a row. Then we waited a week and repeated the three days of treatment and the nightmare was over. Iris was 9 weeks old when she came to me. We gave her only her rabies vaccination as her others were already done. During this whole time I was determined to socialize her. To keep her safe and other dogs too I would take a clean bath towel with me to put into a shopping cart and she would sit on that and ride around the stores taking in the sights and sounds and meeting people. We went to Home Depot, Lowe’s, Home Goods, TJMax and a local pet friendly sporting goods store. We went to a different store every 3-4 days...we purposely stayed away from pet stores. Her bath towel got washed after each outing. By the time we had her healthy she was used to going places and meeting new people. We used YouTube videos to practice basic skills, until we could go to classes. Find another vet for your friend, someone who will try something different than what has already been done. Hint....Panacur is available without prescription in pet stores and on Amazon. They should Discuss with a vet before using It. Giardia is stubborn to get rid of but once they conquer this they can do anything!
I’m going to copy and paste this into a message for them. Thank you!! I think being novice owners just makes this all so much harder to navigate. Sharing your experience will provide them with some much-needed, empowering wisdom. Thank you again. :)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I’ve passed on all your helpful advice, thank you. I also recommended a probiotic to help get him back on track. Apparently he’s completed a course of panacur, then metronidazole, and now is midway through another round of the panacur. He’s super lethargic (not surprising) and was happy to be taken out for a “walk” in a carrier today. Lots of curious sniffing. I suspect the lethargy may actually be working in their favour right now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,347 Posts
I’ve passed on all your helpful advice, thank you. I also recommended a probiotic to help get him back on track. Apparently he’s completed a course of panacur, then metronidazole, and now is midway through another round of the panacur. He’s super lethargic (not surprising) and was happy to be taken out for a “walk” in a carrier today. Lots of curious sniffing. I suspect the lethargy may actually be working in their favour right now.
Keep us posted on their progress with all of this. It was difficult for Iris and me to go through persistent giardia and I am an experienced dog owner. Can not imagine being a novice pet owner and going through this. There is light at the end of the tunnel and they will win!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well I am very happy to report that Toto is negative for giardia. He’ll need a second test, but hasn’t shown any symptoms in weeks. My friends pushed back against the vet’s decision to start the vaccination schedule from scratch, and they ended up picking up where they left off. Toto’s been going out regularly in their arms or a carrier, and showing lots of interest in people, dogs, and the world in general.

Hooray!

Thanks again for all the great advice shared here. Hoping for continued good news.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Wonderful news! I had so much empathy for them reading that. My six month old was diagnosed with giardia five weeks ago, and we are just through with a second round of Panacur and metronidazole (plus stool hardener and probiotics). The time spent sterilizing and steam-cleaning and meal prep is unreal, not to mention the 2 am frantic potty runs (and the frantic game invention for a very bored boy who doesn’t understand why his walkers, play dates and classes have gone away.) But at least mine got through two rounds of puppy classes before this thing hit...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Wonderful news! I had so much empathy for them reading that. My six month old was diagnosed with giardia five weeks ago, and we are just through with a second round of Panacur and metronidazole (plus stool hardener and probiotics). The time spent sterilizing and steam-cleaning and meal prep is unreal, not to mention the 2 am frantic potty runs (and the frantic game invention for a very bored boy who doesn’t understand why his walkers, play dates and classes have gone away.) But at least mine got through two rounds of puppy classes before this thing hit...
Aw, I’m so sorry to hear that. Thank goodness for those puppy classes, but I can’t imagine how exhausting it’s been for you. When will you know if this round of treatment worked?
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top