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We bring home our new spoo addition tomorrow, a little girl. Our first pick was a male, but the breeder has decided to keep him :eek:hwell:. The little girl is a doll and I'm sure we'll be very happy with her. With that said, she comes with a few strings. The breeder is selling her with a co-ownership so that she can breed her once before spaying if desired after testing etc... We were a little hesitant at first, but overall the breeder is very nice, laid back, and seems like she'll be easy enough to work with. (we know a lot of the same people and I've heard nothing but good things) After the litter, or if the breeder decides she won't breed her, full ownership reverts to us and she'll be spayed.

We've never done a co-ownership before. If anyone has any words of wisdom, or things to watch out for in the contract tomorrow, we'd very much appreciate your input!
 

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This sounds like a foster situation as well accept she is adding you as co-owner...are you still paying full price? What do you gain if she breeds her?
 

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This sounds like a foster situation as well accept she is adding you as co-owner...are you still paying full price? What do you gain if she breeds her?
Yeah all that! Ew, that sounds like a tricky way for that breeder to get all that she wants out of that puppy at a later date and still make you pay full price for her.:eek:hwell:
 

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We are paying full price. If she breeds her we can choose one of the puppies--half price. Really mostly what it's in it for us is getting a well bred pup, access to experienced Spoo breeders, and the opportunity to dabble in showing. On the other hand we can't get her spayed, and if bred she'll be gone for at least 2 months. The puppies are just beautiful, great temperaments, and I think that more than anything we didn't want to lose out all together. Obviously there's still a bit of hesitation on our part though.
 

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This sounds like a foster situation as well accept she is adding you as co-owner...are you still paying full price? What do you gain if she breeds her?
Darned good questions Olie. In a foster situation, the breeder will normally require you to raise the dog as if it is your own, but they take her for her testing (which they are solely responsible for), they pay all puppy related expenses (special food while she is pregnant, emergency vet care related to the pregnancy,puppy registrations, ANYTHING connected to the pregnancy and resulting puppies). They usually take the girl to their home about a week prior to her due date, whelp the litter, and you would get her back once the pups are well weaned and she is tired of them. In a foster arrangement, the breeder usually wants two litters back.

In a co-ownership arrangement, normally both parties share all expenses and any profit. If no money exchanged hands, I would call this a foster agreement, particularly if you will not be seeing any benefit from the dog having the puppies.
 

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We are paying full price. If she breeds her we can choose one of the puppies--half price. Really mostly what it's in it for us is getting a well bred pup, access to experienced Spoo breeders, and the opportunity to dabble in showing. On the other hand we can't get her spayed, and if bred she'll be gone for at least 2 months. The puppies are just beautiful, great temperaments, and I think that more than anything we didn't want to lose out all together. Obviously there's still a bit of hesitation on our part though.
Um WHAT? You get a puppy if you want for HALF price? Boy this breeder is pulling the wool over your eyes big time. So let's get this straight. She kept this other boy probably because he was better but she doesn't want to let this girl go because she can be a uterus for puppies in her selling program later on but she's at her limit or just doesn't want to bother with keeping her and showing her herself or else she would. Then she's going to put you in the cost of breeding this dog and raising puppies (God forbid anything happens during the pregnancy or delivery, you'd be responsible) and then take and sell the entire litter and offer you a puppy at HALF the price if you want after you've already invested money in the puppies and given her full price for the dam? Boy if I were you, I'd put a stop to this right now before you dig yourself in really deep here.
 

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We are paying full price. If she breeds her we can choose one of the puppies--half price. Really mostly what it's in it for us is getting a well bred pup, access to experienced Spoo breeders, and the opportunity to dabble in showing. On the other hand we can't get her spayed, and if bred she'll be gone for at least 2 months. The puppies are just beautiful, great temperaments, and I think that more than anything we didn't want to lose out all together. Obviously there's still a bit of hesitation on our part though.
OK - if you get a pup half price are you required to spay/neuter? If yes - I would not do it. NOT that you even want to breed because I would not BUT your getting a pup for the same price, lending it out on a co-owner to breed possibly which means you will need to have the dog in show coat etc.....IDK.:eek:hwell:
 

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Darned good questions Olie. In a foster situation, the breeder will normally require you to raise the dog as if it is your own, but they take her for her testing (which they are solely responsible for), they pay all puppy related expenses (special food while she is pregnant, emergency vet care related to the pregnancy,puppy registrations, ANYTHING connected to the pregnancy and resulting puppies). They usually take the girl to their home about a week prior to her due date, whelp the litter, and you would get her back once the pups are well weaned and she is tired of them. In a foster arrangement, the breeder usually wants two litters back.

In a co-ownership arrangement, normally both parties share all expenses and any profit. If no money exchanged hands, I would call this a foster agreement, particularly if you will not be seeing any benefit from the dog having the puppies.
Exactly - and correct me if I am wrong there typically is not a charge of full price for the dog if anything right? That is in a foster situation.......
 

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The breeder will pay for all the testing and breeding expenses. Spaying, and normal everyday care and expenses are on us as are showing / training expenses.

Not sure how much I can change things with her at this point. I was actually thinking we'd have another week before she made any decisions. Yesterday's email was a bit of a surprise. There is another litter that we'd been considering, but I just love the temperament and looks of these pups and the parents.

If I were to ask for changes at this point. What would be the minimum you'd ask for?

Thanks for your help!
 

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Co ownership- in MY breed (aussies) normally comes with a full payment price- dog gets to stay in tact (For me it is because I want to show- for some others it means the breeder wants to show the dog). Breeder gets choice of one pup- and input on first litter etc. What the 'terms' are of co ownership is different breeder to breeder owner to owner (See around up here? don't hear the term 'foster' foster i would assume no purchase price- but breeder can take dog at any time- and first choice of purchase if dog goes for sale)

A lot of co ownerships are just so the breeder can keep tabs on the intact dog until they feel the trust with the purchaser can be given (IE my breeder didn't know me from anyone- cept icame with references from another breeder) however i get all expenses and all profits from any breeding (She gets choice of one pup)
 

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Um WHAT? You get a puppy if you want for HALF price? Boy this breeder is pulling the wool over your eyes big time. So let's get this straight. She kept this other boy probably because he was better but she doesn't want to let this girl go because she can be a uterus for puppies in her selling program later on but she's at her limit or just doesn't want to bother with keeping her and showing her herself or else she would. Then she's going to put you in the cost of breeding this dog and raising puppies (God forbid anything happens during the pregnancy or delivery, you'd be responsible) and then take and sell the entire litter and offer you a puppy at HALF the price if you want after you've already invested money in the puppies and given her full price for the dam? Boy if I were you, I'd put a stop to this right now before you dig yourself in really deep here.
DITTO!!! You are being snowed by someone who knows you want a puppy. You should have only had to pay HALF the value in your area for a breeding bitch, and you should be getting HalF the value of that litter back, less expenses. And you should only have to pay HALF of any expenses, and they should be CLEARLY documented with receipts, etc. You make sure too that you are paying for HALF...you are not paying to feed her other dogs!!! If the breeder opts to keep a puppy from the resulting litter, then you get to keep one for nothing or she has to pay YOU half of the pup she keeps. I would run in the other direction because you are seriously being snowed!!!
 

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Keep a look out on this thread - maybe some more breeders will post and you can get a bigger picture - but IMO I would NOT pay full price........its tough when you find that perfect situation.

But trust me you can go in good and then down the road it could change and you see things in a different light. So your best to get some other opinions on here.
 

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DITTO!!! You are being snowed by someone who knows you want a puppy. You should have only had to pay HALF the value in your area for a breeding bitch, and you should be getting HalF the value of that litter back, less expenses. And you should only have to pay HALF of any expenses, and they should be CLEARLY documented with receipts, etc. You make sure too that you are paying for HALF...you are not paying to feed her other dogs!!! If the breeder opts to keep a puppy from the resulting litter, then you get to keep one for nothing or she has to pay YOU half of the pup she keeps. I would run in the other direction because you are seriously being snowed!!!
...........yep yep.........and of course she would go back for welping, thats what usually happens - I feel for you, BUT I would push her/him and if they don't change the contract, pricing etc I would bail out
 

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Just to clarify, the pup goes back to her for whelping.
With the whelping it can be either/or. It doesn't really matter who does it (in this case it is better that it be her, because she has experience at it). You would be splitting all of the expenses.

If you can work something out that you get half your money back from the purchase price, and get second choice pup from the litter FREE to keep or sell, if that makes you happy, that is fair enough. But she has this set up so it is a win/win stuation for HER. And on top of everything else, if you do go on and show this dog and do good things, SHE is the one who reaps the benefits of that (other than the joy you get from showing) because SHE is the breeder, and it is her name that will be in the show catalogues promoting her breeding operation.

If you cannot work this out to be fair to you, I would ask her about fostering instead, and my bet is she'd say no, because if this puppy was good quality, she would be keeping it instead of the other one, or as well as the other one.
 

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The breeder will pay for all the testing and breeding expenses. Spaying, and normal everyday care and expenses are on us as are showing / training expenses.


Yes, this sounds like 'fostering', for lack of a better word, and no it's not fair on your side.
I have done this with 3 females, they were not charged a penny for them... and it's only one litter.
I pay for all the tests, pregnancy costs, do the whelping and raising of course... and in the meantime they are sent 'care packages' of healthy food and treats from me. I also pay 1/2 of the cost of spay.

It's up to you... but personally... I wouldn't. There are plenty of lovely poodles out there without such strings attached.
 

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I agree with everyone else, this does not sound like a good deal for you. I really don't see how you're getting anything out of it, other than perhaps a show quality puppy.
 

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We are paying full price. If she breeds her we can choose one of the puppies--half price. Really mostly what it's in it for us is getting a well bred pup, access to experienced Spoo breeders, and the opportunity to dabble in showing. On the other hand we can't get her spayed, and if bred she'll be gone for at least 2 months. The puppies are just beautiful, great temperaments, and I think that more than anything we didn't want to lose out all together. Obviously there's still a bit of hesitation on our part though.
No way! That's nuts. You are paying her to raise her dog so that she can have puppies without the hassle. Keep looking is my advice.
 

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It almost sounds reasonable up until the part where you get 1/2 off a puppy. You'd think she at least let you have a whole puppy, especially if you're paying full price for this puppy and are responsible for the show costs. I'm looking forward to hearing what the other breeders have to say. (I found the opinions already shared interesting as well.)

What are you wanting in a Poodle? Do you really want to show or is this just a way for you to get a nice quality pet? I think I'd ask if there was a way to get this puppy on a pet contract, but that's just me. Are there only two available in the litter?
 

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Who is the breeder? What are the registered name of the dam and sire? Is the breeder going to show the bitch for you? The typical show co-own agreement looks something like: You buy dog, you finish dog, breeder gets a puppy back.

Show breeders don't put "show poodles" in pet homes because they can't take care of coat.

In your case, you are paying full price but the breeder gets to come back and make $5000-$10,000 off of your pet. Breeding is not easy. It can be really hard on a bitch. What does the contract say if your bitch dies sometime during the breeding/whelping process? (This does happen). How many heat cycles do you have to go through before the bitch will be bred (bitches bleed for around 21 days and have to wear panties and pads).
 
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