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Dechi,

The dog you are referring too is, happily, still with me. She is 11 1/2 now and is still running agility with me, picture here is her this past March....She was a black that turned blue and it did take her almost 5 years to really clear. She is a dark blue, but a blue. I have a younger dog from the same breeder, and we knew she was going to be blue from the start. She is also dark blue as an adult, but a bit lighter than my older one. The second picture is both girls this past June, the older girl is on the right and the younger on the left.

Lily is correct about the browning you are seeing on the muzzle and around the rump, that is not the brownish/rust tinge you sometimes see on a dog that will blue out. The third picture is the girl we knew to be a blue at around 7 1/2 months. You can clearly see the rust shading in her ears and how her coat is not really black. She was only just beginning to clear here, it took her somewhere around 2 1/2 -3 years for her color to finish.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Dechi,

The dog you are referring too is, happily, still with me. She is 11 1/2 now and is still running agility with me, picture here is her this past March....She was a black that turned blue and it did take her almost 5 years to really clear. She is a dark blue, but a blue. I have a younger dog from the same breeder, and we knew she was going to be blue from the start. She is also dark blue as an adult, but a bit lighter than my older one. The second picture is both girls this past June, the older girl is on the right and the younger on the left.

Lily is correct about the browning you are seeing on the muzzle and around the rump, that is not the brownish/rust tinge you sometimes see on a dog that will blue out. The third picture is the girl we knew to be a blue at around 7 1/2 months. You can clearly see the rust shading in her ears and how her coat is not really black. She was only just beginning to clear here, it took her somewhere around 2 1/2 -3 years for her color to finish.
Your girls are beautiful !

I agree about the browning, it’s from being wet, not a change of color.

What makes me think that maybe she is changing color is her back, and part of her legs. In the last pictures I posted (links) she definitely is paler than when she was younger.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Here are some pictures from today. She definitely is changing color. I don’t know what she will be, but it’s not black...
 

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Pictures from outside. If you compare with the first ones I posted about 1 month ago you can see she is even paler.
 

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Mr. Layne has some of the oxidation on his black muzzle but so does my Schnauzer who LOVES nothing more than playing in the water bucket & then laying in the yard drying in the sun. I wondered what would happen with his color since his mother is (I think) a silver beige phantom (several pups in his litter were silver beige... ugh gorgeous) & his daddy was a black, white, & silver parti.

I thought I understood how you could tell silver & blues as puppies but now looking at those pictures... hmmm...
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Mr. Layne has some of the oxidation on his black muzzle but so does my Schnauzer who LOVES nothing more than playing in the water bucket & then laying in the yard drying in the sun. I wondered what would happen with his color since his mother is (I think) a silver beige phantom (several pups in his litter were silver beige... ugh gorgeous) & his daddy was a black, white, & silver parti.

I thought I understood how you could tell silver & blues as puppies but now looking at those pictures... hmmm...
I don’t think Beckie is following normal patterns. It will be interesting to see how she is in 12 months, but it’s hard to know. She still might be a «*bad black*» I suppose.

So don’t worry, everything you know is most probably how it is ! :)
 

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Very few blacks stay inky black. I suspect that is because there has been so much breeding of dogs of different colors. Unfortunately, you cannot depend upon a color pedigree because most blue dogs are registered as black since registration usually is done early in life, and no one is going to register a dog as "bad black"! To the best of my knowledge, silvers always start turning as puppies, but blues are much slower to change.

AKC does allow for color changes on the registration - although a request for a change will be reviewed and may have a fee.

The rules regarding poodle colors for AKC dog shows are made by the Poodle Club of America, not by AKC. For all breeds of dogs, AKC simply recognizes the breed standard of the parent club.

The poodle standard specifies that the dog must be entirely one color, although shading of that color is allowed. So cream colored poodles with ears that are almost apricot are allowed because that is shading. Parti-colored poodles are not allowed because there are two different colors.
 

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Another way to tell is coat texture, most of the blues i have groomed have much finer hair more likely to form tight ringlets, than the thicker rounder curls of a black.
Our second standard was blue, at the time we had never heard of it and thought she was a bad black at first then at around 22months she started to lighten dramatically and reached her final colour at three, whereas my current pups was very obviously lighter than her littermates at birth and at 8 months old looks lighter every time I groom her especially when you put her next to her black sister.
Pics of her at birth (on the end with the light blue ribbon) & today
 

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She looks blue to me. And you said that one of her parents was either cafe au lait or silver beige. So that parent definitely carried the fading gene and likely passed it on to your girl. It is not unusual for a black puppy to take up to 3 years to clear to blue. Many have very slight clearing by the time they are 8 or 9 weeks, but not all.

Here are some pictures of blue momma dogs. The first two are of Sam's first "wife." The last three are his second "wife." Most of the black puppies in these litters later cleared to blue, but you can see the contrast between the color of the blue mommas and the black puppies.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
She looks blue to me. And you said that one of her parents was either cafe au lait or silver beige. So that parent definitely carried the fading gene and likely passed it on to your girl. It is not unusual for a black puppy to take up to 3 years to clear to blue. Many have very slight clearing by the time they are 8 or 9 weeks, but not all.

Here are some pictures of blue momma dogs. The first two are of Sam's first "wife." The last three are his second "wife." Most of the black puppies in these litters later cleared to blue, but you can see the contrast between the color of the blue mommas and the black puppies.
Oh wow, yes, what a contrast ! I can picture Beckie being a similar color as Sam’s first wife...
 

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Discussion Starter #34
The two moms are pretty similar in color, so differences that you see are probably due to the lighting. Here are some more photos from the 2019 litter. This is wife #2 -- her second litter, and Sam's third litter.
Oh I love her color too ! I’ll be thrilled if Beckie turns out such a nice blue !
 

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Whatever is going on, I love Beckie's salt & pepper look. It's interesting and pretty. It will be interesting to see if she turns to a blue or what. Maurice has some silver too...a slightly discernible phantom actually. I really like that mix.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Here is Beckie today after a face groom. She is still changing color slowly. The last picture is with Merlin, he wanted to be in too.

We went to the parc today, it was sunny and they were both so happy !
 

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