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Discussion Starter #1
Today in the sun I noticed Beckie wasn’t as black as before. She looks like she is starting to be silver, which is odd since she now is 26 months old.

Her mom was a cream I believe and her dad, a silver beige or café au lait, so both are dilute colors, right ?

Here are some pictures from today. The brownish tint on the bum is because of the soap I use when she has poop stuck to her bum. It goes away when I shave her.

As you can see, the head, shoulders and legs still look black while her back is starting to look silver. She looks like she went sun tanning with a shirt, bikini and socks on !

What do you think is happening ?









Her tail looks partly silver





And just for fun, Beckie being cute :



 

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I don't really know anything about colour change as I have a black, but to my untutored eye it looks like she might be going silver.
 

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Not silver! On a puppy that will be a silver (or dilute of colors other than black) you will see the muzzle lighten even when they are very young and you will see that change spread to other areas of the body all throughout puppyhood. Look at some of MaizieFrosty's puppy pics of Maizie.


The brownish coloring on Beckie's muzzle and rump are oxidation from her having wet hair air dry with sun exposure. The light hairs mixed in are similar to Lily who is a grizzled black (her dam was white sire was black). This has increased as she has aged, but I did see a bit of it when she was fairly young. I suppose you could call that a bad clack if you wanted. Javelin has much less of those light hairs, but even though both his parents are black I do see a few white hairs sprinkled in even on him. Let's not forget that there are lots of dye jobs and hair extensions on black (and other color) dogs in conformation rings.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Not silver! On a puppy that will be a silver (or dilute of colors other than black) you will see the muzzle lighten even when they are very young and you will see that change spread to other areas of the body all throughout puppyhood. Look at some of MaizieFrosty's puppy pics of Maizie.


The brownish coloring on Beckie's muzzle and rump are oxidation from her having wet hair air dry with sun exposure. The light hairs mixed in are similar to Lily who is a grizzled black (her dam was white sire was black). This has increased as she has aged, but I did see a bit of it when she was fairly young. I suppose you could call that a bad clack if you wanted. Javelin has much less of those light hairs, but even though both his parents are black I do see a few white hairs sprinkled in even on him. Let's not forget that there are lots of dye jobs and hair extensions on black (and other color) dogs in conformation rings.
You’re right, not silver.

But blue, maybe ? I’m still reading and apparently some blue poodles are born black (and others you can tell they are blue from birth) and only clear around 2-3 years old. She would fit the bill.

I feel like the hair is too evenly changing color to really be bad black. If you look at her back, it’s a totally different color than the rest. Some blues will have darker legs, so that would also fit the bill.

Also when I look at her back (I’ll look closer in the sun tomorrow), it’s not lighter because there are a lot of white hair mixed in with the black. It’s actually hair of a lighter color all over, starting from the skin. (Will double check that tomorrow). She does have a few white hair guard, but not enough to changer her color.

It doesn’t make a difference to me, but I’m really curious. For sure we will know next summer at the latest. But in the meantime, if someone has had that experience, I’d like to hear.

ETA : Eclipse on the forum has (or had, it was in 2010 ?) a beautiful blue that took almost 5 years to clear, and who was born black and stayed black for 2 1/2 years I think. It really is fascinating.

https://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/6191-bad-black-vs-blue-2.html
 

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Someone wise on PF once said, every color fades but white. I thought a “bad black” was one that started out as a puppy grizzled or faded. Buck is not the inky black he was as a puppy, neither is he blue, grey or silver.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Someone wise on PF once said, every color fades but white. I thought a “bad black” was one that started out as a puppy grizzled or faded. Buck is not the inky black he was as a puppy, neither is he blue, grey or silver.
You can’t argue with that, lol !
 

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She will be blue.

Poppy began an entire coat change at 2 yrs old and by three she has become blue. Her head tail and feet are still more black but she is clearly blue. It began with some brownish shading in places and a bit of silver on the under edges of her ears.

Her dad was white and mum black. Her brother Milo also has turned blue.

Here is Poppy, my formerly black but now blue poodle!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
She will be blue.

Poppy began an entire coat change at 2 yrs old and by three she has become blue. Her head tail and feet are still more black but she is clearly blue. It began with some brownish shading in places and a bit of silver on the under edges of her ears.

Her dad was white and mum black. Her brother Milo also has turned blue.

Here is Poppy, my formerly black but now blue poodle!
I hope you’re right, even though other experienced members don’t think so. I don’t know why, but blue is so appealing ! :)

Did Poppy not have a paler face as she was younger ?

She is beautiful and I love her color !
 

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As Buck is from an an all black breeding, I think his is a natural fade. He’s like that black tee shirt from a few seasons ago. Black, but not as when it was new.
 

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I hope you’re right, even though other experienced members don’t think so. I don’t know why, but blue is so appealing ! :)

Did Poppy not have a paler face as she was younger ?

She is beautiful and I love her color !
Poppy was inky black when I got her at 13 weeks....at 5 months a silver thread or two on the underside edges of her ears, but the rest of her body still inky, except her muzzle was starting to show a little silver.

It wasn't until age 2 that she started to get white hairs here and there throughout her coat and quickly the rest of her coat began silvering/turning blue.

Her coat change from 2-3 was very dramatic just like puppy coat change with horrible matting and shedding coat into the brush whenever I brushed her....I had a horrible time getting my clippers through her coat as they would jam up badly with old and new coat.

On the attached picture you can see the silvering starting on her face....she was 5 months old in this picture. The other picture of her with my friend Efrat was when she was 1 1/2 yrs old....silver on ear edges and muzzle the rest was still black.
 

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COLOR BREEDING IN POODLES

I don't know if this will help or not. But if she turns blue, that would be awesome. If she doesn't turn blue but stays how she is, that would be awesome. I love that grizzled, salt and pepper look. Plus, she's just adorable any which way.
 
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Her mom was a cream I believe and her dad, a silver beige or café au lait, so both are dilute colors, right ?
Cream is not a dilute color. At least it is not the same as the gene that causes fading in puppies that are born black or born brown. A cream poodle can carry two, one or no copies of the gene that causes black or brown puppies to fade. You can't tell by looking at the cream poodle whether they do or do not carry this gene. For example, my cream boy Sam carries one copy of the fading gene. We know that because his sire was silver.

If your pup's dad is silver beige, he will definitely pass a fading gene on to his puppies. If he is cafe au lait, he might or might not.

Beckie looks like she is blue to me. She is certainly adorable!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks PB, this site is very informative !

Peppersb, thanks for clarifying the dilute gene. I don’t know much about color genetics, it’s very complicated and when it’s knowledge you don’t use, it gets forgotten really fast, at least in my case...

I will bathe her and groom her and post new pictures so we can see better. But today is «*fish day*», I have to take care of them first.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)

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I just want to add that silver is not an "accidental" color. Good poodle breeders breed for pure, rich color. Beautiful, clear silver coat color is the result of deliberate breeding, just as deep black and ice white are.
 

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I just want to add that silver is not an "accidental" color. Good poodle breeders breed for pure, rich color. Beautiful, clear silver coat color is the result of deliberate breeding, just as deep black and ice white are.
I mentioned silver at the beginning of this post, but I shouldn’t have. Silver is very easy to distinguish from black, even from birth.

If Beckie is not black, she will be blue, not silver.
 
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