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Is there really risk of Parvo if they let too many people visit the facility? One breeder is saying that is the reason that you can only come on visit day
This comes up OVER and OVER on breeder groups, and you do get a range of responses, with a few breeders not allowing visitors. Here's the thing: parvo can kill a puppy, but so can undersocialization. IMO there are many ways short of keeping puppies in a bubble for 8-10 weeks to protect them from parvo and other diseases while providing a stimulating environment (i.e., outdoors and a variety of surfaces) and lots of human interaction.

The other thing to understand is that assuming the dam has good immunity from parvo and distemper, and assuming the puppies got adequate colostrum (first milk after whelping), the puppies will have good protection via maternal immunity for some weeks after birth. In fact, that's why you need to give a series of parvo/distemper shots to puppies--to make sure that one of them is given late enough that it isn't overridden by maternal antibodies. That is a long geeky way of explaining that although I don't want to introduce parvo into my house, I also don't see visitors as walking parvo bombs. I'm more worried about my breeder friends who have been tromping around dog shows than I am my non-dog friends and other visitors.

So I welcome visitors. I ask people to wear clean clothes and make sure they haven't recently visited a dog park, a dog show, or another breeder's house. Visitors remove shoes and wash hands.

Last year we lost a wonderful toy poodle breeder, Gayle Roberson of Poco a Poco toy poodles (BEST kennel name ever!). But her website lives on, and includes some great advice on shopping for a puppy.

: Poco A Poco Toy Poodles
 

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Discussion Starter #83
I would certainly avoid a breeder who would not let me see their kennels and meet their dogs until I arrived to collect a puppy. How can you know what sort of set up they have if you cannot visit?! And how can they assess you as a suitable home without ever meeting you?
 

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Based on a discussion in another thread here is a good screening tool for looking at websites. You want to see a reflection of the breeder's goals and work with their dogs to prove their worthiness for passing on their genes. Don't be pulled into the puppy inventory page (often with PayPal links) where you can reserve your specific puppy sight unseen. Someone with lots of available puppies on a website is potentially a miller, broker or other form of greeder.
 

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Wonderful post FJM!

Might I add, a red flag is breeders offering "papers" from questionable "registries" (which have few if any regulations and will register any puppy or dog for a fee, even mixed breeds and cross-bred designer dogs):

CKC (Continental Kennel Club, not to be confused with Canadian Kennel Club)
APRI (American Pet Registry Inc)
ACA (American Canine Registry)
And so on (there are many, many more)


Legit all-breed registries include:

American Kennel Club (AKC)
United Kennel Club (UKC)
Canadian Kennel Club (CKC)
The Kennel Club (UK)

There are many other legit national kennel clubs in countries throughout the world.
Another red flag to me is "breeders" who do nothing with their dogs. They don't show in conformation, obedience, agility trials, hunting trials, tracking, or participate in therapy work.

If the parents are not anything else but breeding dogs, why would that be? Someone who loves the breed, any breed, would be involved in things their dog is bred to do, or at least want to share and show off their wonderful pets.

I talked with a lot of breeders before finding my puppy. Registration with reputable Kennel Clubs is a good thing, but registering dogs is only paperwork. Having health testing is good too, but still does not require the love and dedication that breeders who love the breed should demonstrate by participating in some kind of dog-related activity with their dogs.
 

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Well said cate&clair. I think poodles are so much more than just a pretty face and that doing some sort of activity with them takes advantage of their brainy ways. A small part of why I wanted a standard poodle when I got Lily was because obedience as a sport essentially started with them. If the right temperament isn't in the lines then the dog won't do good work and the only way to know for sure about the temperament is to have dogs who do things as the parents, grandparents, etc.
 

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Excellent post! We put a deposit on a new pup a few weeks ago. He'll come home March 1. Your post was great confirmation because we seem to have done it right!
 

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won't allow visit also

I too found a breeder that looked great on the website, requires references, does lots with their dogs BUT will not allow a visit (due to germs) prior to the puppies being weaned. That just doesn't sit right with me. Anyone recommend any standard breeders in Michigan or surrounding states? TIA.
 

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I am quoting because some hard lessons need to be shared

I have read through this thread many times lately because it is never too soon to start preparing for my next pup/adult.

I usually figure myself as a smart person but it's easy to make a mistake or be misled

So I am putting this here as a cautionary tale because I have read more than a few posts of late regarding the high cost of health testing of poodle pups, the questions or just blatant statements of why one should pay these so called high prices, the pup I got from them is just fine.

I am not a breeder but I do reccomend you do your homework, truth be known I didn't on either of my pups

My Beatrice, is a toy poodle from a "home" breeder and she is a wonderful dog but what it cost me to get her bi-lateral luxating patellas surgically repaired, before she was 3 years old, I "jokingly say" I could have gotten another puppy for what it cost to fix them, truth is at NY prices vet othro prices I could have gotten several puppies from a reputable breeder.

For those who cannot do the math that is nearly $8000

Would pet insurance saved me, nope because my vet said at her first visit I got her at just shy of 18 weeks her knees were not great, but she may not get worse.

Yep I did my homework now but on knee strengthing exercises a pup I fell hard for.

I hear again and again the home breeders have beautiful puppies, hate to tell you all puppies are beautiful, it's easier to walk away when it's a photo on the computer than when it's a warm wiggly puppy in your lap.

And it's easy to think that a terrible breeder is someone who has puppy mill like conditions, that there are diseases like parvo, but I advise you to really look at the parents because that is what your pup will look like grown up

But when it's something that could have been avoided by good breeding practices like don't breed dogs that have crap knees or insert what other tested for maladies in here... seems some folks are thinking this can't possible affect them.

My Beatrice who is 39 months old at the time of this post, had her first surgery at a little over 16 months of age to repair a torn crucitate ligament and grade 3 luxating patella in her left knee and was 35 months old when she had her grade 4 right knee repaired.

Sure she is happy now, but basically I had a crippled dog up until now

You may luck out with a home breeder, me next time I will either adopt from a shelter, which is a crap shoot on genetics and temperment ( but I won't be lining someones pocket with $$$$) or find myself a breeder that does the required testing

okay I am done now, go back to you research


It's is a year later for Beatrice and I, she is suffering from cruciates and will most likely need another surgery to repair her cruciates ligament. Also she in the early stages of chronic kidney disease.

http://www.poodleforum.com/29-poodle-health/260617-beatrices-ultrasound-report.html


Hopefully after reading what I wrote you will please please please do your home work because if you think that $1800 - $2500 is too much for a pup from highly reputable breeder who does all health and genetic testing remember my cautionary tale.


Beatrice is 4 years old and I have spent another $2k on my $750 home bred cute wiggly warm sweet brown puppy.

I could have bought 4 puppies from highly reputable breeder who does all health and genetic testing for what I've paid trying to get my sweet little girl healthy.

Okay go back what you were doing I am off my soap box.
 

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twyla I am sorry you are going through all this with Bea. It is a rough bit of news for her. I do though once again have to thank you for your candor about what is happening with her. I hope people looking for the bargain puppy that a BYB or miller will take heed from your unfortunate problems with your cute little Bea.
 

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It's is a year later for Beatrice and I, she is suffering from cruciates and will most likely need another surgery to repair her cruciates ligament. Also she in the early stages of chronic kidney disease.

http://www.poodleforum.com/29-poodle-health/260617-beatrices-ultrasound-report.html


Hopefully after reading what I wrote you will please please please do your home work because if you think that $1800 - $2500 is too much for a pup from highly reputable breeder who does all health and genetic testing remember my cautionary tale.


Beatrice is 4 years old and I have spent another $2k on my $750 home bred cute wiggly warm sweet brown puppy.

I could have bought 4 puppies from highly reputable breeder who does all health and genetic testing for what I've paid trying to get my sweet little girl healthy.

Okay go back what you were doing I am off my soap box.
So sorry. We did not do our research on our dog 35 years ago. Amazing personality, terrible health issues

Sent from my STV100-3 using Tapatalk
 

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So sorry. We did not do our research on our dog 35 years ago. Amazing personality, terrible health issues

Sent from my STV100-3 using Tapatalk
Thank you All I can do is love my Beatrice, I do have my healthy boy Leonard thanks to what I have learned here
 

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I am here to once again say do your research careful because any idiot can put two dogs together and make awesomely cute puppies because let's face it all puppies are adorable. But not all dogs should be bred, nor should just anyone be breeding dogs.
My toy poodle Beatrice has had a short pain filled life, thanks to idiots.
Congenital and inherited problems, luxating patellas end with deeper surgeries at 16 months and 3 years, diagnosed with early chronic kidney disease at age 4, at age 5 terminal cancer Lymphangiosarcoma, I don't know if she will see her 6th birthday on April 1st, she has lived longer than they thought she would.
My toy Pia has severe food intolerances, distachsis (inward growing lashes), and now is now being treated for cervical spine pain, thought is was the elbows, her conformation is horrible. But my vet and strongly suspect I.V.D.D.
(Intervertebral disc disease) we are treating with steroids and loads of rest for the next 4 to 6 weeks. miniature poodles are one of the breeds that can get this, damn genetic disorders.
Make sure the parents are friendly, they are cleaning housed, nicely groomed. The parents are old enough to be bred, which should when their health testing is done , like knees cannot be properly assessed until a toy poodle is two.
You think this can't happen not my poodle, or I only want pet quality so the testing isn't necessary.
I am never going see my girls get to gracefully age with me into retirement.
I was stupid and didn't know better, never again my advice is find a breeder that health tests, that also does confirmation, does agility, hunts does something with their dogs other than just make cute puppies.
Save up for that puppy, that you may think is expensive right now or you will be paying and paying after.
Gimmicky colors and sizes aside, I want my poodle pup to grow up healthy happy with and awesome temperament otherwise I will go to a rescue.
 
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