Poodle Forum banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello Everyone,

I know this is a hot topic but I thought I would try anyway ;)

Does anyone know any good breeders that are leaving tails intact in Canada or the NW States?

If it is easier I would prefer black, white red, or brown for colors (I know I haven't narrowed it down yet).

TIA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,183 Posts
Silken Poodles in Ontario does not dock. She breeds reds and partis.

I agree with Cbrands comment below. There is a huge difference between a straight ubdocked tail and a horribly curled undocked tail. My Flynn's is like a poker- straight as an arrow. And Quincy's has only a slight curve which can be hidden with a huge pom. Thinker's tail however was docked too long and has such a curve in it, sometimes he look like a curling rock!!! Personally I could not stand an undocked tail that has too much of a curve in it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,686 Posts
After seeing that fabulous bitch that Kim Russel is showing, I can see the appeal of a full tail. However, that tail is so wonderful because it is straight and it has near perfect, 12 o'clock carriage. Are you going to be OK with a full tail that is lying on the back gay? What about a highly curled squirrel tail? Just something to think about.

I think Dogsinstyle of this board has a litter of Browns that have full tails.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
548 Posts
We have two undocked standards. Both breeders were willing to work with us in our desire for undocked tails; however, it wasn't easy. Because we had to pick our dog out at day three, due to docking, we ended up having pick-of-the-litter. Depending on the breeder, you will pay extra due to the "pick" status. The choices of breeders in the US leaving tails undocked is very limited from my research. If you want a specific color, it limits the choices even further. Feel free to PM me if you want further details. Perhaps as the undocked tails become more accepted in the US, more breeders will go this route and open up the "undocked" door a bit :).

In response to the curvature of the undocked tail: I have noticed that the tail often straightens significantly dependent on the dogs level of interest and excitement. In a relaxed state, the curvature can be more pronounced. When standing alert, it lifts up and out creating a straighter appearance. Just my observation from watching undocked tails for the past five years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
After seeing that fabulous bitch that Kim Russel is showing, I can see the appeal of a full tail. However, that tail is so wonderful because it is straight and it has near perfect, 12 o'clock carriage. Are you going to be OK with a full tail that is lying on the back gay? What about a highly curled squirrel tail? Just something to think about.

I think Dogsinstyle of this board has a litter of Browns that have full tails.
+1 on that bitch that kim is showing. i have to agree that the tail set, andthe tail itself would have to be almost perfect. it can be a personal thing, as i know one breeder who does not dock but it's not for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
486 Posts
I did dock 2 males per request, but the rest of the litter is undocked. I won't have another litter for a while- My plan is to breed Runway to a Russian dog in the future. This is his ped (full brother)-
PHR Pedigree Database
Carole
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
When I picture my poodle I see a full natural tail like Arreau's Quincy or a long dock like Fluffyspoo's Vegas.

I think I would prefer a "gay" or "squirrel" tail over a very very short dock. I am not 100% sure about it but I would like to talk to breeders who can provide me with more information.

Thanks again for all your suggestions!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I did dock 2 males per request, but the rest of the litter is undocked. I won't have another litter for a while- My plan is to breed Runway to a Russian dog in the future. This is his ped (full brother)-
PHR Pedigree Database
Carole

What is your long term plan for your breedings? How far in advance are you planing? (We are not planning on adding to our family for about 2 years (give or take)).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,546 Posts
We have two undocked standards. Both breeders were willing to work with us in our desire for undocked tails; however, it wasn't easy. Because we had to pick our dog out at day three, due to docking, we ended up having pick-of-the-litter. Depending on the breeder, you will pay extra due to the "pick" status. The choices of breeders in the US leaving tails undocked is very limited from my research. If you want a specific color, it limits the choices even further. Feel free to PM me if you want further details. Perhaps as the undocked tails become more accepted in the US, more breeders will go this route and open up the "undocked" door a bit :).

In response to the curvature of the undocked tail: I have noticed that the tail often straightens significantly dependent on the dogs level of interest and excitement. In a relaxed state, the curvature can be more pronounced. When standing alert, it lifts up and out creating a straighter appearance. Just my observation from watching undocked tails for the past five years.
I would think that finding a good breeder who regularly docks, and asking them to not dock, would be nigh on impossible!
As picking puppies at 3 days old is not regularly done by good breeders, as choosing the ideal puppy to carry on with in your breeding program cannot be done then, as you will have no idea at how the puppy will turn out at 3 days old... when the choice to dock or not is done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,042 Posts
Why not then buy a pup from Europe ?
There you are not allowed to dock and there are now a few generations of undocked dogs so you can see if the parents have bad tails or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,546 Posts
Why not then buy a pup from Europe ?
There you are not allowed to dock and there are now a few generations of undocked dogs so you can see if the parents have bad tails or not.
Yes, that is also another option!!
It seems that that will be the way I will go...
quarantine is just too long for me to get one from America!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,183 Posts
What Jak said is absoultely correct. If a breeder docks, it is a pretty scary thing to try and choose a pup for someone by three days old so they can leave the tail natural. When you get right down to it, you cannot even be sure a three day old puppy has eyes yet, because their eyes are closed tight until about twelve days old. I have a breeder in Sweden very keen on getting a breeding/show puppy from me, but so far, we cannot figure out what to do, because I will not try to pick a show/breeding pup at three days to leave its tail undocked because it is next to impossible to choose just the right puppy for anyone at three days old. So if you cannot find someone amongst the breeders that have been recommended to you in North America, then Europe might be the way to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Thanks, I didn't think that I would be able to find someone who docks that would not dock for me.

I have an idea.... Arreau you could have a litter in about 2 years and leave all of the puppies undocked and send some to Europe and then one to me ;) lol

But on to reality, how long/how much does it cost to import from Europe compared to the States? Are there countries that are easier/harder?

If I went on a vacation and brought back a puppy would it be easier?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,042 Posts
Thanks, I didn't think that I would be able to find someone who docks that would not dock for me.

I have an idea.... Arreau you could have a litter in about 2 years and leave all of the puppies undocked and send some to Europe and then one to me ;) lol

But on to reality, how long/how much does it cost to import from Europe compared to the States? Are there countries that are easier/harder?

If I went on a vacation and brought back a puppy would it be easier?
You can send a pup with Cargo or take him with you as luggage.
If you send through Cargo it would cost more then just taking him with you.
But if you have no business in Europe and just flying back and forth then Cargo is less expensive.

The extra cost with Quincy was about 750 USD but she also had to pay some toll and handling fee at the airport.
the 750 was for the cage, cargo flight, Vet check and export pedigree, I think thats all.

I have imported two dogs and I have always gone out to pick them up.
and we have paid 150 USD for the dog coming from Germany and 350 USD for the bitch from Sweden.

I think most pups are around 1400-2000 USD Then I am talking about pups from good breeders, with shown and health checked parents.

For Canada they don't have to have there rabies shot before they leave from Iceland, but I am not sure for the USA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,183 Posts
Thanks, I didn't think that I would be able to find someone who docks that would not dock for me.

I have an idea.... Arreau you could have a litter in about 2 years and leave all of the puppies undocked and send some to Europe and then one to me ;) lol

But on to reality, how long/how much does it cost to import from Europe compared to the States? Are there countries that are easier/harder?

If I went on a vacation and brought back a puppy would it be easier?
In two years I may NOT be docking at all. I have considered this in the past, but coming from a show home it is taking me a bit to get my mind around it. But there has been a lot of interest from Europeans, because they do not seem to have the quality of colour we have here, and the fact that I do dock and do not feel comfortable picking a puppy at three days old is causing a considerable road block. So, the answer may be to not dock and only do it IF someone requests it. We'll see....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,314 Posts
You might want to ask around about smaller breeders who might keep tails undocked. My breeder is originally from Europe and only has about 1 litter every 4 years or so, and it just worked out that she was having one just as I was looking for a pup. She keeps the dogs natural because that's what she's used to.

Cbrand did make a good point earlier. You have to accept that the tail may go all sorts of ways if it's undocked! Darcy's curls quite a lot, which some people wouldn't like. It doesn't bother me at all, in fact I like it, but an undocked tail can be a crapshoot. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
In two years I may NOT be docking at all. I have considered this in the past, but coming from a show home it is taking me a bit to get my mind around it. But there has been a lot of interest from Europeans, because they do not seem to have the quality of colour we have here, and the fact that I do dock and do not feel comfortable picking a puppy at three days old is causing a considerable road block. So, the answer may be to not dock and only do it IF someone requests it. We'll see....
That was a long shot (I was joking) but if you are serious I would want to be on your list!

Cdnjennga, this was my hope that someone would know someone that did not dock. I really do not want to have someone pick a puppy at 3 days old and have it be the "wrong" dog for us. It would be better if they didn't dock at all. I agree Cbrand did make a great point but I don't think it would matter if my dog had a curly or "gay" tail. Do you have pictures of your Darcy's tail? (The picture I see of Darcy with the pine cone has a very cute tail with a curl or curve I would love)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
We got our puppy from Silken. We had to go to Canada to find a breeder as most in the US seem to dock & it was important to us to have an undocked tail. Her temperament is fantastic, she is calm yet curious & so far has been really healthy. We would recommend Lori. She did a great job of keeping us informed, answering our zillions of questions & sending video links at least every week after the pups were born.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top