Poodle Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone, I have an older standard and just recently brought a spoo pup into our house. Puppy was found online through a breeder, great testimonials and a fair price. Most of the dogs they breed are therapy dogs, but a Facebook post said that this dog was available for adoption immediately, even though the litter was not advertised.

I made arrangements with the breeder to pick up the 9 week old female, brought her home and the family fell in love. We noticed though that her backside was always damp - I thought she needed to learn to squat properly and gave her a little haircut. Nothing changed...always damp. Brought her to the vet twice to check for UTIs. Negative.

She's almost 6 months old and is always slowly leaking urine. She saw a specialist last week and confirmed though ultrasound that she has an ectopic ureter. This will require surgery at the cost of $5500+ to repair, and has only a 50-70% success rate.

The specialist that we saw last week said without a doubt the puppy had these symptoms (leaking, wet backside) since birth. It's a congenital deformity. The contract states that if the dog should have this deformity, the breeder would never ask for the dog back and would offer another puppy in it's place.

I feel that we were sold a dog that the breeder knew was leaking, and had some sort of problem. Isn't that misrepresentation? I don't want another puppy - I need help covering the $5000+ vet bills that I am about to incur due to her not informing me about the symptoms the puppy has experienced since birth.

What do you think? Do I have any options? She's a wonderful dog otherwise and part of our family, so we will do what's best for her. Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,116 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,519 Posts
(((Hugs))) I’m so sorry. I hope you get help.
 
  • Like
Reactions: greenmom17

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,478 Posts
Hi

I'm not sure exactly how they would step in, if they would step in, but is the breeder participating with the AKC or a similar body?

Does the contract offer any options beyond what you wrote above?

Do you think there's any value in getting a second opinion, given the dollar amount and the percentages of success?

This is a sad situation but hoping for a good outcome for you all.
 

·
Premium Member
Miss Pia Maria , Mr. Leonard Pink , Ida Lou and Ussman
Joined
·
8,708 Posts
I know this might sound a little harsh, but Puppy was found online through a breeder, great testimonials and a fair price. is kinda where you went wrong. Health testings is paramount and a fair price for for a well bred poodles may seem steep but if you cheap out on either of these factors you pay and pay and pay.

How do I know?

My $750 toy poodle Beatrice had bi-lateral knee surgeries at the cost $4000 per knee, or $8000 shelled out before she was 3 years old. Another $2000 to diagnose Beatrice with early stage kidney disease before she was 4 years old. I don't have pet insurance nor am I wealthy, I had to put off moving and give up other things to pay for her surgeries and testing. Put off buying a car as well.

Yes I would encourage you to read your puppy contract and contact the breeder. You might get somewhere you might not.

My advice is this though apply for Care credit, to get second opinion on your puppy's condition. Also if there are any Veterinary schools near you contact them regarding the surgery might be less. Do some research and find out if any vet's might be willing to let you make payments or charge less.

Yes it stinks, I've been there actually still am there as my Beatrice is 5 yrs old now, I love her dearly, but she's not going to get old.

There are also two other member here that have issues like your pup, BrooklynBonnie is one I remember you might PM her.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,343 Posts
If that is what your contract says, I think I would ask the breeder for the money, rather than another puppy. And I would look into laser surgery, which has a similar success rate but is far less invasive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ghost and Dechi

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,562 Posts
If that is what your contract says, I think I would ask the breeder for the money, rather than another puppy. And I would look into laser surgery, which has a similar success rate but is far less invasive.
I was going to day the same. Ask the breeder to sell the puppy and give you the money to help pay for surgery. Make sure you see the bill of sale.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,456 Posts
Hi I am sorry your new pup has this condition. I am not at all familiar with it and offer no help, other than to let her wear diapers. Have you spoken to the breeder? If your contract states this about the condition I would definitely contact them and see what they will do. Since it does say they will offer another puppy, perhaps they could at least offer the money they would get for a puppy in lieu of the puppy? to help defray any costs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
523 Posts
"The specialist that we saw last week said without a doubt the puppy had these symptoms (leaking, wet backside) since birth. It's a congenital deformity. The contract states that if the dog should have this deformity, the breeder would never ask for the dog back and would offer another puppy in its place".

Your contract SPECIFICALLY references this particular condition? If so, that alone is really odd and a big red flag that the "breeder" knew about the condition or has had it in her lines before, especially since its not a really common condition to my knowledge. I've signed several contracts that discussed such more common issues such as hip dysplasia, etc., but even then, they don't list out obscure or every condition a puppy could have.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
You likely will not receive reimbursement for medical expenses unless it’s roughly the purchase price. With your statement of a “reasonably priced breeder” I doubt that will come close to the price of $5,000. Seems like even most of the state laws only cover up to purchase price as well. She has a contract, but don’t expect an irreputable breeder to abide the terms unless forced. All you can do is talk to her. In this case, it seems your alternative is another puppy or to pay the vet bills yourself. You can always shop around for different vets and I like the recommendations of veterinary schools as well - see if there are any price differences.

I think I might get stoned for this, but it’s very important to consider your finances, your future finances and if a dog with ongoing high health expenses is even a possibility for your family. If it’s not an option, I would consider rehoming with a family that can provide that type of care. Not everyone is prepared to take on special needs pets, financially or otherwise, and without getting pet insurance beforehand you’ll likely not get covered at this point. Perhaps another pup is the best way to go if you haven’t developed too strong a bond yet - it’s worth considering.

I know we don’t always make the best choices, so no finger pointing here. It’s how we move forward once we’ve learned. I am so sorry for your struggles and your pups struggles. I wish you the best.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,464 Posts
I am glad twyla wrote candidly about the issues with her Beatrice. She has learned a tremendous amount about paying up front vs. paying through the dog's lifespan. I don't take issue with finding a breeder online, but then there is a whole other level of important research to be done. I found Javelin's breeder online, Lily's too. After finding them I did research on the pedigrees of the parents' lines and also through poodle health registry. I had lengthy conversation by phone and through email with both breeders. Because Lily was born about 30 minutes away and Javelin came from Connecticut I/we visited both breeders several times before puppies came home with us.

I also agree with Eclipse that listing this specific condition in your contract sounds very odd and would have been a huge red flag to me.

I know this is very hard and sad. If you decide to keep this pup I would consider CareCredit. But I will also say you have to think about the long term possible health related expenses in the context of your general financial resources and future needs. Rehoming might also be a very viable alternative as Ghost suggested..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thank you; our puppy did come with AKC papers. I did contact several other clinics that offered Internal Medicine. One place was higher priced, the other teaching veterinary clinic did not do laser ablation, only open surgery that has a lower success rate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thank you for your comments. The contract didn't state ectopic ureter specifically, but any congenital deformity would be guaranteed by contract - with a replacment puppy. My issue is with the breeder selling the puppy - who most likely noticed leaking in the 9 weeks under her care - as a healthy dog. Misrepresentation. I'm not ready to disclose the breeders name until we see what comes of this situation. I feel she should at least refund us the price we paid for the puppy. This was not a backyard breeder. Thank you for your comments and thoughts.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,629 Posts
i guess folks are shying away from this, but i think maybe it's only fair to warn you that breeders who take puppies back for defects often end up destroying them, so at least you are not being told you must return your pup to get a replacement. i doubt you will get any money given the terms of the contract, unless you are in one of those states with lemon laws that apply to pets. but if you take the replacement puppy, perhaps you could sell it yourself to help pay for your girl's surgery? if you do, make sure there is a contract and that there are terms re the pup passing a vet check within 3 days or whatever the usual timeframe is. and do the check within the required timeframe.

this is so sad. i am sure by now your family is committed to your puppy and you don't even want to rehome her. i hope there will be an acceptable solution for all of you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Thank you for your comments. The contract didn't state ectopic ureter specifically, but any congenital deformity would be guaranteed by contract - with a replacment puppy. My issue is with the breeder selling the puppy - who most likely noticed leaking in the 9 weeks under her care - as a healthy dog. Misrepresentation. I'm not ready to disclose the breeders name until we see what comes of this situation. I feel she should at least refund us the price we paid for the puppy. This was not a backyard breeder. Thank you for your comments and thoughts.
I’m not sure I’d consider it misrepresentation. 9 weeks is fairly young and most puppies do go to their new homes and begin potty training there. The puppy is now six months old you said? Finally being diagnosed after multiple visits to check for UTI’s etc? How would a breeder have known within those first 9 weeks of a puppy’s life? This is why contracts for genetic defects are made. I would discuss it with her and she may be willing to do the puppy’s price instead of another puppy - but remember the contract goes both ways and I’m not sure she could be made liable as you agreed to those conditions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,456 Posts
Ghost, I think you made some valid points. I also do not think the breeder was aware of this at 9 weeks. Any puppies have excited pee at that age and outgrow it. I also doubt that the OP will get any funds for this other than a replacement puppy. She did say the breeder does not requite the original dog back, t leah I think I read that. I rather think the cost will be on the OP. Perhaps as others mentioned she can get the replacement pup and sell it on her own or perhaps the breeder may issue her a refund for what she would sell a puppy for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,439 Posts
I think you really need to just contact the breeder and see what they say. We could speculate all day what they might do, but we won’t know until you have spoken to them and heard back. I also agree, this is not misrepresentation. I seriously doubt that a 9 week puppy could be diagnosed with this, as they are still (in many cases) trying to gain control over their bladder at that point. I would not put the blame on the breeder as specifically “knowing” that they sold you a lemon pup. Rather I would be very happy that it looks like the contract has a stipulation for genetic defects. But I would absolutely not expect a breeder to pay $5000 towards a surgery, nor does the contract call for that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
I think you really need to just contact the breeder and see what they say. We could speculate all day what they might do, but we won’t know until you have spoken to them and heard back. I also agree, this is not misrepresentation. I seriously doubt that a 9 week puppy could be diagnosed with this, as they are still (in many cases) trying to gain control over their bladder at that point. I would not put the blame on the breeder as specifically “knowing” that they sold you a lemon pup. Rather I would be very happy that it looks like the contract has a stipulation for genetic defects. But I would absolutely not expect a breeder to pay $5000 towards a surgery, nor does the contract call for that.
Exactly this what Chinchilla said, and may I add - not with any mean intention - please look into insurance as soon as you can. Your scenario is the very reason I am thankful that $30 is taken out of my account every month. I have a very high deductible (I think I set it at $1000) to keep my monthly low, but while I don't foresee an issue with $500 or $1000 sudden expense this sort of medical issue with a $5000 price tag is why I have insurance.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top