[Purley]

On the advice of a friend in the kennel club - she has been in dogs for ever - I contacted a miniature poodle breeder near here. I had three male shih-tzus and lost the older one to congestive heart failure earlier this year. She suggested that I introduce a female miniature poodle. So I paid her a deposit of $250. However, she doesn't seem very good an answering emails. I had asked her if she had a photo of the puppy and she said she would get one when she groomed the puppy.

I saw her this weekend at the dog show. I didn't ask for the photo.

She has agreed to keep the puppy until it has had its three parvo shots because my son's dog was here last August when we discovered he had parvo. I offered to pay for the extra parvo shots and asked her what arrangements she wanted - like did she want money for keep etc.

The puppy will not have its three parvo shots until the end of July. Should I just shut up and not bother her until the puppy is ready to go? Of course, I'd like it earlier but I am not prepared to take a chance with parvo. I'd like to get updates - at least see a photo, but as she doesn't answer my emails sometimes - I don't want to be a pest.

 

[cbrand]

I'm a huge fan of minimal vaccination, but using that schedule, your puppy could not come home until 16 weeks. That seems really, really late to me and I think you are missing a very critical period in this dog's life. Do you trust this breeder to correctly socialize this puppy?

How old is the puppy now? Is there any chance that the puppy could be given a Neo-par vaccination? This is a very early Parvo vaccination that is given at around 4 weeks I believe and is meant to specifically override the immunities passed from dam to puppy. I don't use this myself, but in your case it seems warranted.

The other option is to bring your puppy home at 12 weeks with only two Parvo shots. Really, the puppy should be completely covered with only two shots since the third one at 16 weeks is optional.

Finally, I just want to make sure that you have your ducks in a row regarding testing. The most important test for a Mini is the Optigen test. Minis carry a gene that causes juvenile blindness. It is important that all Minis be tested to see if they are Optigen A (clear), Optigen B (carrier), or Optigen C (affected). This way breeders can avoid breeding Poodles who are affected. Has your breeder done this test?

 

[Purley]

On her website she talks about Legg- Perthes disease and how there isn't any test for this and how her vet checks the puppies. At least I think that is what she is saying. There is nothing about an optigen test. She also talks about seizures and how none of her dogs have show any evidence of seizures. I would imagine that if I mentioned it she would get quite defensive - that is if she hasn't done any tests.

I have thought long and hard about the parvo. If my son's dog hadn't been here then I would have taken the puppy with one parvo shot and kept it at home until it had all three. However, I paid the vet bill for his puppy and it was $1,800 and the dog still could have died. His littermate that came to my city also got parvo and it died at the vet's. I would obviously prefer to have the puppy early but all things being considered I decided it was not worth taking the chance. I couldn't handle another puppy getting sick with parvo.

What kind of socialization are you talking about? She says that she is house-training the puppy. Having never been a breeder I have no idea what she might be doing with the puppy. Its obviously not still with its mother. It was born March 17th. What happens if a puppy doesn't get the right kind of socialization? I don't think its unknown for puppies to be kept with the breeder until 4 months is it?

I suppose I could write to her and say I had been messing around on the Internet and was wondering if she had done Optigen testing on her dogs.

Any suggestions?

 

[cbrand]

Optigen testing on Minis is absolutely standard practice. I don't see why a breeder would be defensive about being asked about this. You can also check testing online at Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. You will need the dam's or sire's registered name or AKC registration #.

Re socialization.... Gosh, starting at twelve weeks after their second Parvo shot, I take my own puppies everywhere. They see kids, they go to the hardware store, they go to the park, they ride in the car etc. I want them to be exposed early on to as many different people, animals and experiences as possible.

When a puppy is under socialize at an early age, it can become fearful or overly reactive. I think this is especially true with a Mini.

 

[Purley]

Well, I will be going to the dog show tomorrow and if I have the chance I will ask about pra testing and whether she has done any.

I am still torn -- I would like the puppy socialized but I don't want to take any chance with the parvo. I have no idea the names of the sire or the dam. I know what she is calling the puppy but that's no help. They would be registered with the Canadian Kennel Club, but without a name I can't look anything up. Mind you, seeing I have given her $250 already I am not sure what I would do about it if she says she hasn't had the eyes checked!

 

[Marian]

Purley, it might be helpful if cbrand could look at the breeder's website too. Can you post the link?

 

[cbrand]

Mind you, seeing I have given her $250 already I am not sure what I would do about it if she says she hasn't had the eyes checked!

If a Mini is prcd-PRA affected, it will go blind. Frankly I'd rather eat the $250 than have a blind dog. Really, though, if she is going to the trouble to talk about Legg-Calve Perthes, she must have done Optigen testing or her stock is clear by parentage.

 

[Purley]

Here is her website. I am not passing on any confidential information. Its there for all to see on the Internet.

Oh -- my fault -- I didn't read it carefully enough. She says all of her dogs have been tested for PRA. Actually, we had an eye clinic yesterday in conjunction with the dog show. I saw her heading out of the door so perhaps she was taking the two dogs she was showing to the eye clinic.

Home

Incidentally, she no longer breeds Toys.

I am really in a quandry about the Parvo. At first I was going to take the puppy after its second shot. And then people in the kennel club - people whose input I value - said -- weeelll -- you actually had a dog with Parvo on your own property nine months ago - if she will keep the puppy for you until it has had all its shots -- then I would rather be safe than sorry. Its not the money. I wouldn't want to spend $2,000 on vet fees, but I would. Its the stress of a little life that you are responsible for -- and you don't know if it will live or die -- despite being at the vets 24/7. That is what I can't handle.

 

[neVar]

I had this issue last year- i took in a rescue- whos dam we had in the rescue vaccinated, pups born one vacinnation comes to my house 2 days later slight parvo symptoms (but not 'classic' parvo) course my pup is 4 weeks and at her breeders at this point i'm in full blown panic. Test came back positive which did surprise us all. Instant panick on my part.

We went two vaccination and then brought her home. I did have parvaid on hand just in case. My opinion was that i was comfortable taking her to places (petsmart etc) after 2 vaccinations my opinion was my house which was very well disinfected was no more risk then there. I did do some basics like take her to my front lawn to go potty instead of my back yard wehre that puppy was.

On the good news in my case the test on puppy did end up coming back negative, false positive from the vacination (and he had same symptoms after his 2nd vaccine... ) but we still treated it like it was a positve to be on the safe side. This was the program me, my breeder and two vets i consulted with felt was very safe. we did give her aweek after that second vaccine before bringing her home.

 

[Purley]

Is it easier for a big dog like a Standard Poodle or Aussie size to fight off Parvo than a little dog like a Miniature Poodle?

 

[PaddleAddict]

Is it easier for a big dog like a Standard Poodle or Aussie size to fight off Parvo than a little dog like a Miniature Poodle?

I used to work at a vet hospital and unfortunately saw many cases of parvo. In my experience, the breed or size of the dog rarely made a huge different in whether the pup survived or not. Parvo is a scary thing for sure. I am understand being overly cautious.

Looking at your breeder's website, she seems pretty experienced and responsible (just from what I see). Just ask her if she's going to be able to take the puppy out and about for socialization.

Don't feel so scared about talking to your breeder. She should be open and honest with you, and there are no dumb questions. I am sure she will set your mind at ease if you just ask.

By the way, I just adore my mini. He's my first, but he won't be my last.

 

[Purley]

I seem to have trouble reaching her. She lives in the country on an acreage and often doesn't respond to my emails. Also, she often doesn't seem to answer the phone either!!

I know she was expecting a litter of puppies in May some time. I did see her at the dog show. Apparently she got best of breed with one of her dogs yesterday. I don't know which one but I wouldn't mind betting it was the girl. She was showing two blacks a male and a female brother and sister - 14 months old.

 

[Jazztoon]

Purley, I'm still very new here. So take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I think it's great that you are being so cautious regarding the Parvo. I do think it's concerning that the breeder is being so uncommunicative. I don't have much experience with breeders, but I would think they would want to be in touch with you regarding your puppy.