[PonkiPoodles]

I'm a yahoo answers addict! And I came accross a very interesting question the other day - the replies where horrible thou!

It basically said that if you are looking for a white poodle the best whites come from black parents. I was wondering why this is.... I can understand that whites need to have the black points, is anyone familiar with this?

 

[WonderPup]

I'd love to hear some answers to this... I've not had the time to get really in dept with poodle color genetics. I can tell you all about tibetan spaniels, but not poodles lol.

 

[spoospirit]

Dianne does a lot of genetic research on poodles. I have never heard her mention that one but maybe she knows the answer.

 

[roxy25]

From my understanding this is probably true. I see most breeders using blacks, I also see white to silver breedings also.

If you breed a white to a brown = non black points ( I am not even sure if any pups will come out white)

If you breed a white to cream= cream pups or in between colors maybe whites but no sure if possible you also risk non black points depending one the dam and sire color points are

If you breed white to red = apricot pups and creams same as above when it goes to non black points depends of red dogs background

If you breed white to apricot = creams and apricots depends on DD gene to produce apricots

out of all the examples I do not know where silver beige falls in it could be a brown to silver breeding but I have not looked into this color much.

The reason being is the gene for red, apricot, cream, and white is the same

If you breed whites to WHITE, SILVER, BLUE and BLACK then you are ok. these dogs will have black points except the blue which has a dark blue but does not have no effect on the white dogs color points

 

[PonkiPoodles]

From my understanding this is probably true. I see most breeders using blacks, I also see white to silver breedings also.

If you breed a white to a brown = non black points ( I am not even sure if any pups will come out white)

If you breed a white to cream= cream pups or in between colors maybe whites but no sure if possible you also risk non black points depending one the dam and sire color points are

If you breed white to red = apricot pups and creams same as above when it goes to non black points depends of red dogs background

If you breed white to apricot = creams and apricots depends on DD gene to produce apricots

out of all the examples I do not know where silver beige falls in it could be a brown to silver breeding but I have not looked into this color much.

The reason being is the gene for red, apricot, cream, and white is the same

If you breed whites to WHITE, SILVER, BLUE and BLACK then you are ok. these dogs will have black points except the blue which has a dark blue but does not have no effect on the white dogs color points

Roxy, you seem to be very much into the color genetics! Where do you find all your resources... books? Please do share...
I've always been interested in biology and genetics... and have recently been bitten by the k-9 genetic bug! :rofl:
I've done a lot of searching on the internet concerning coat color genetics in dogs, and I've found some great info... but not a whole lot on poodles.

 

[roxy25]

Roxy, you seem to be very much into the color genetics! Where do you find all your resources... books? Please do share...
I've always been interested in biology and genetics... and have recently been bitten by the k-9 genetic bug! :rofl:
I've done a lot of searching on the internet concerning coat color genetics in dogs, and I've found some great info... but not a whole lot on poodles.

Honestly I been studying dogs since I was 10 or so I am now 25 lol I just know genetics well also since I was breeding American bobtails for over 7 years. My strong points are in science lots of info from biology text books. I have a cat genetics book , dog breeding book will have genetic info as well the more updated the better. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=dog+genetics&x=9&y=20 I have read a few.

I have also spent years talking to breeders about colors genetics etc… all types of breeds.

I do read stuff on the net but I do not trust the net sometimes. You have to be careful on what site you are reading. over the years I found a bunch of bogus stuff online.

This website below is pretty good on teaching basics
http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/genetics/genetics.html

there are some color issues with certain breeds that a lot of breeders do not get , I dunno if you heard of silver labs? A lot of people are saying these dogs are mixed with weimaraners I strongly disagree since blue is a dilute of black. Labs come in black ( this is easy genetics) I don’t understand why people are not getting it lol

 

[PonkiPoodles]

I dunno if you heard of silver labs? A lot of people are saying these dogs are mixed with weimaraners I strongly disagree since blue is a dilute of black. Labs come in black ( this is easy genetics) I don’t understand why people are not getting it lol

Funny you should bring that up.... I was just contemplating that issue on another dog forum I belong too.
It seems that some people think that purebred Labs originally did not carry the dilute gene and that it was introduced to the breed by adding weimaraners (or a weimaraner for that matter) to the line. And that silver was never produced by any of the purebred breeders (not intentionally trying to get that specific color). The color stayed cause those breeding silver labs are inbreeding to maintain that color in their stocks. :questionmark:

There is a lot of controversy involving the silver lab thou.
Now, I'm not at all a lab person... so I couldn't tell you what exactly the history is.
But it would be very interesting to know!
Thank you for the link!!!

 

[WonderPup]

interesting Roxy, I had never heard of Silver labs until last friday. A customer came in and was talking about them. I thought he was a little crazy (which he is) he always has some wild opinion or fact that may or may not be true. Maybe this was one of the few times he was correct on someting ROFL. He also said AKC had been registering doodles for well over 3 years as of last friday... I try and just ignore whatever comes out of his mouth in most cases.

 

[roxy25]

Funny you should bring that up.... I was just contemplating that issue on another dog forum I belong too.
It seems that some people think that purebred Labs originally did not carry the dilute gene and that it was introduced to the breed by adding weimaraners (or a weimaraner for that matter) to the line. And that silver was never produced by any of the purebred breeders (not intentionally trying to get that specific color). The color stayed cause those breeding silver labs are inbreeding to maintain that color in their stocks. :questionmark:

There is a lot of controversy involving the silver lab thou.
Now, I'm not at all a lab person... so I couldn't tell you what exactly the history is.
But it would be very interesting to know!
Thank you for the link!!!

I just forgot that weimaraners are not really blue they are a mouse grey color anyways all this means that this grey silver color is a dilution of brown and not black. Labs come in chocolate =Brown lol the thing is these dilution genes are mutations honestly most dog colors are mutations. If I bred black labs and kept inbreeding them a blue would pop up some time down the road same with a brown dog producing silver. This same issue is with game bred apbt( pit bulls) so many people think a blue dog is not a pit bull they will say it’s a amstaff mix. Well I have seen several pit bulls from game stock with pure linage that where blue most of the dogs in the pedigree are black. Most game bred dogs are inbred heavily.


Have you seen a red Rottweiler before ? not red as in enzo red but red as in red dobie? Well I owned one, most breeder cull pups like this at birth. This same issue could be the reason why people have not documented silver labs. They could have been born but people cull them so who knows really. I am not a lab expert but , I am not surprised about silver labs.
There have been reports of blue or silver Newfoundland’s. There are blue GSD’s Liver GSDs liver and tan GSDS

A lab breeder at the UKC show I went to told me that Rottweiler was added to American show labs ( not sure if this is true ) but it could explain why our show labs looks so fat and big boned lol She also said she has been researching phantom poodle pedigrees and made a very interesting comment. She believes that some silver poodles carry the phantom gene. She says that some silvers are phantom but do not show two tone colors as if a black and tan dobie. I thought about it and I have noticed myself that I have seen some silvers that had light legs and eye brows. The dog would have to be color tested to even know if this was true , but I found that interesting.

 

[roxy25]

interesting Roxy, I had never heard of Silver labs until last friday. A customer came in and was talking about them. I thought he was a little crazy (which he is) he always has some wild opinion or fact that may or may not be true. Maybe this was one of the few times he was correct on someting ROFL. He also said AKC had been registering doodles for well over 3 years as of last friday... I try and just ignore whatever comes out of his mouth in most cases.

LMAO !!!!!

yeah there are a bunch of colors within each breed that people do not know about.

Brittany spaniels come in black and white, and even tri color but you wont see this stuff in the USA

a breeder who I bought some cats from swore up and down that two brown/black tabby cats can not have lynx point kittens .... I just let her believe that since she has been breeding for 12 years. well sorry to burst her bubble we had a lynx point kitten born out of two brown/black tabby cats lmao

 

[bamsd619]

Actually, black will dominate white, so at best you will get "blue puppies" or black that will fade to blue over time. I breed white to white/cream and black to black. It keeps thing cleaner that way.

B