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Discussion Starter #1
Here is a new pic of Billy taken today. I know that some think he is black but he is light in the muzzle and under the eyes and as a pup he was definitely lighter on the end of his muzzle even with a full face of hair. I am still leaning toward blue but would like the input of our forum family. If you need any other images, I will take some.


 

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I think Billy is black, BUT I am not strong in this area of color at all. I can guess others close but not his one. Billy is an amazing looking dog. :) I guess where it matters for a breeder is maybe the concern, but otherwise does it really matter? :)
 

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It does matter when deciding which bitches to breed him too as the fading gene will play a big part in the offspring. If it wasn't for the fact that Billy will be used in our breeding program, it wouldn't matter one iota. I love him to death no matter what color her is. Thank you for your input Olie!
 

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I'm no colour expert, but at this point in time he looks black. I think his muzzle would have different colouring if he was blue.
 

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It does matter when deciding which bitches to breed him too as the fading gene will play a big part in the offspring. If it wasn't for the fact that Billy will be used in our breeding program, it wouldn't matter one iota. I love him to death no matter what color her is. Thank you for your input Olie!
That answers my question and makes perfect sense, I ask things to understand better versus judging:) or jumping to conclusions as it so often happens. When I take pics of Olie - his color appears darker then what I post here. Suri on the other hand looks the same:eek:hwell: Oh and I dont question your love for your dogs :)
 

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I also think he is black. Every time you would mention him being blue I was very confused.

I took a picture of a true blue dog and you can tell she was blue. Your other dog you call grey is blue. ( sorry I forgot her name)


O and the light areas you said you see I see them on Argon it looks just like shiny hair to me Argon is black for sure. If its not the shine he could be a black who is fading.
 

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That answers my question and makes perfect sense, I ask things to understand better versus judging:) or jumping to conclusions as it so often happens. When I take pics of Olie - his color appears darker then what I post here. Suri on the other hand looks the same:eek:hwell: Oh and I dont question your love for your dogs

It is good that you ask to better understand. I love people like you!! LOL

I never thought you were questioning my love for Bill. I just love him so much I had to say so!!
:smile-big::marchmellow:
 

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I also think he is black. Every time you would mention him being blue I was very confused.

I took a picture of a true blue dog and you can tell she was blue. Your other dog you call grey is blue. ( sorry I forgot her name)


O and the light areas you said you see I see them on Argon it looks just like shiny hair to me Argon is black for sure. If its not the shine he could be a black who is fading.
This is so interesting! All this time we thought Billy was going to blue out. LOL Well, learn something new every day. And, his sister's name is Grace and we have had a few tell us now that she is blue, not a gray or silver. This is always such a big problem to accurately define the color of a poodle.

He is definitely not fading like a bad black so that is a relief.

Thanks, Roxy.
 

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This is so interesting! All this time we thought Billy was going to blue out. LOL Well, learn something new every day. And, his sister's name is Grace and we have had a few tell us now that she is blue, not a gray or silver. This is always such a big problem to accurately define the color of a poodle.

He is definitely not fading like a bad black so that is a relief.

Thanks, Roxy.
My boy Eli is probably what's considered a bad black but they dont start to show signs right away. Eli just turned 2 yrs in Sept and it was just after that all his grey hairs started to come in. Before that he only had a few and the shading on the muzzle. Now its more obvious on his rear, muzzle and back legs. Eli is just a pet so I dont mind at all, but I think Billy is still pretty young (a year or so right) If he's gonna grey out, I think you'll start to see signs in about 6 months or so.
 

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I think he is starting to blue out, Its hard to tell from photos though. Brian was supposed to be black, but just recently I am leaning toward a late clearing blue.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
He does look black to me too. Is there any hint of a brownish hue to the coat? Looks inky black.
Yes...you will see it especially outside in the daylight and when he is sitting on the grooming table with all the lights on. When he was a pup he had a brown hue to his entire coat and especially at the end of his muzzle.

I have been having a lot of trouble with Lightroom not rendering my blacks (or any colors) correctly. And, as much trouble with their Indian employees who don't have a clue about anything. I have had to adjust the deep purple and magenta saturation out of every image with black.

I talked with a Canon employee (American, thank God!!) who helped me with their software and from now on my blacks will look correct as photographed.
 

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The blue puppies I have seen, including my own, have an almost purplish brown hue to the entire coat (root to tip) when seen in good lighting. Compared to a black puppy, it is very noticeable. As a young puppy, you can identify them often by light whitish hairs in between the paw pads and sometimes on the underside of the ear. When next to a black puppy, you can tell them apart by the time they are 4 months old or so.

Sometimes black puppies will appear light in the muzzle after shaving because of the balding effect of the clipper (especially on bony structure) and the skin that is not suntanned yet. Before I had a blue puppy, I probably wouldn't have been able to pick one out and would have noticed something different about the puppy, but not know what it was. Now I can spot them across the ring easily. The picture really looks black. But pictures can be deceiving. Here's a picture I have posted before of my blue boy. See how his coat just doesn't look quite black, or it looks dusty almost and his face is light. Usually the hair above the eyes is lighter as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The blue puppies I have seen, including my own, have an almost purplish brown hue to the entire coat (root to tip) when seen in good lighting. Compared to a black puppy, it is very noticeable. As a young puppy, you can identify them often by light whitish hairs in between the paw pads and sometimes on the underside of the ear. When next to a black puppy, you can tell them apart by the time they are 4 months old or so.

Sometimes black puppies will appear light in the muzzle after shaving because of the balding effect of the clipper (especially on bony structure) and the skin that is not suntanned yet. Before I had a blue puppy, I probably wouldn't have been able to pick one out and would have noticed something different about the puppy, but not know what it was. Now I can spot them across the ring easily. The picture really looks black. But pictures can be deceiving. Here's a picture I have posted before of my blue boy. See how his coat just doesn't look quite black, or it looks dusty almost and his face is light. Usually the hair above the eyes is lighter as well.
Ah, yes...his whole muzzle is light! Thanks.
 

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And his feet, and base of tail are the same as his face. He is only 6 months old. I would really think yours would be more noticeable if it were blue by now, but who really knows. All of the blue puppies I see look very similar to mine at this age and just get lighter as they age.
 

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Hey, don't obsess about it. Whatever it is will be and you can't change it. Besides, it may clear out and if it doesn't....IMO, there is no such thing as a "bad black":). Blue and Silver are dilutions of the black gene. Some blacks are inky dark, some are soft black and some are in between. My bitch grizzled out after she had puppies at the age of 4. She has a lot of Cream and Blue in her ancestry. After grooming, she looks very black but after about two weeks she looks like an aging lady. I turned grey after I had kids too! Coat is one of the easiest things to improve upon with breeding. I would much rather have that than a quality that is harder to improve!
 
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