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Discussion Starter · #181 ·
One thing that really jumps out at me in the Purina vegan/hyopallergenic is the amount of corn.
Yeah, I know, I wasn’t too thrilled about that. I wouldn’t be surprised if corn was the culprit as I don’t think she’s had any in the past year except with that food.

Then cross out each one on that list that’s also in the foods she’s tolerated well.
I’ve thought about doing that but I wonder if it’s useful since the way the ingredient is used might make a difference. But I should try comparing at least the 3-4 last bags of food, in case there is a tendency.
 

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Yes, I am one of those humans that react to both gluten and soy! And I can talk, and therefore explain what is bothering me, even if Doctors and other people do not believe me. I feel so badly for dogs who are probably trying to tell us, and we are so dense we do not understand what they are saying!

So good to hear about Beckie! "Today she’s been on Royal canin anallergenic and she was such in good spirit, it was a joy to see "

Yeah, hooray!
 

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I’ve thought about doing that but I wonder if it’s useful since the way the ingredient is used might make a difference. But I should try comparing at least the 3-4 last bags of food, in case there is a tendency.
You can even just compare the RC with the vegan to start. It’ll take just a few minutes, even if you take the time to actually write it out (which I think can be helpful).

It may not provide all the answers, but it could be a start.

I recently had a horrible flare-up of a bladder issue, which I traced back to the small amount of pineapple juice I’d been enjoying with my dinners...to help with digestion. It was helping one issue, while making another worse. Urrrggghhh. I will say, though, that the digestive issues are more bearable than the bladder one. And maybe that’s where you’ll end up with Beckie—bearable symptoms.
 

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Having another thought...

I think it was twyla who'd mentioned FreshPet food. This is much more of a homemade style food, sold in big box pet stores, some grocery stores, and some Walmart's. I checked what I think is your general area and I think you might be able to find it. It's refrigerated rather than frozen and shipped, as with those other companies. It can be bought in pretty small quantities so there's not a big investment needed.

This is what the presentation case looks like
474360


I've checked the recipes and there's three, maybe four, variations that might be worth looking over but availability is the issue.


There's a beef with bison (no poultry listed)
It's sort of a paté consistency, so doesn't look all that appetizing but is what is

474355


All Ingredients
Beef, Beef Liver, Bison, Beef Broth, Spinach, Cranberries, Blueberries, Pea Protein, Carrageenan, Salt, Natural Flavors, Potassium Chloride, Inulin, Celery Powder, Fish Oil

Vitamins:
Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid
Minerals:
Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate

In this same form, there's a Salmon and Whitefish
All Ingredients
Salmon, Fish Broth, Spinach, Cranberries, Blueberries, Ocean Whitefish, Sweet Potatoes, Lentils, Sunflower Oil, Pea Protein, Carrageenan, Natural Flavors, Celery Powder, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Inulin

Vitamins:
Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid
Minerals:
Dicalcium Phosphate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate


and in a different form, a beef only animal protein but is a complete, balanced meal

474358

All Ingredients
Beef, Beef Broth, Beef Liver, Pea Protein, Pea Fiber, Natural Flavors, Salt, Cultured Dextrose

Vitamins:
Choline Bitartrate, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin, Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate , Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement
Minerals:
Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Selenium Proteinate

There's yet another variation of beef and lamb, but there are eggs further down in the ingredients list.

474359


All Ingredients
Beef, Beef Liver, Lentil Flour, Lamb, Egg, Pea Protein, Beef Broth, Pea Fiber, Natural Flavors, Cranberries, Sunflower Oil, Spinach, Salt, Vinegar, Carrageenan, Fish Oil, Celery Powder

Vitamins:
Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid
Minerals:
Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate


Like PTP said, just thinking out loud and hoping something helps.
 
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I know you have strong reservations about the anallergenic food, but if she is happy and healthy on it for me that would decide the issue. I would simply feed her the stuff that keeps her comfortable, no matter how bizarre the ingredients seem. Perhaps in a year or two you could try the horse meat and potatoes, if you can find someone to prepare it for you, but for now I think the poor little sausage deserves a comfy tummy, even if it means eating feathers! You have put so much thought and effort into this - time for you both to be able to relax and get on with life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #188 ·
You can even just compare the RC with the vegan to start. It’ll take just a few minutes, even if you take the time to actually write it out (which I think can be helpful).
I plan on doing that. I will post the results.

Oh darn. Just saw that this has been ruled out. So liver levels are all good?
Yep, all good. She has a geriatric blood panel (more complete) just a few months ago and everything was fine.

All Ingredients
Beef, Beef Liver, Bison, Beef Broth, Spinach, Cranberries, Blueberries, Pea Protein, Carrageenan, Salt, Natural Flavors, Potassium Chloride, Inulin, Celery Powder, Fish Oil
Thanks for the suggestion. This is really fine food but that’s where we started last summer, before I went to the dermatologist. She’s tried 3 different brands of similar foods and 5-6 different animal proteins and none of them worked. What might be a game changer is if her allergies were actually seasonal allergies and not triggered by food. We will only know this summer. If she starts licking while being on a food that works for her, then it will mean she’s not actually intolerant to meat. Or not all meats. But somehow I doubt it, because she always had adverse reactions in winter as well, not just in summer.

I know you have strong reservations about the anallergenic food, but if she is happy and healthy on it for me that would decide the issue. I would simply feed her the stuff that keeps her comfortable, no matter how bizarre the ingredients seem. Perhaps in a year or two you could try the horse meat and potatoes, if you can find someone to prepare it for you, but for now I think the poor little sausage deserves a comfy tummy, even if it means eating feathers! You have put so much thought and effort into this - time for you both to be able to relax and get on with life.
I agree 100%. That’s what I’m strongly leaning to do. Especially seeing how well she has been the last two days, since going back on it. The only thing that annoys me is that this food is like pressed powder and when she eats, it stays stucked on her teeth, way in the back. And brushing doesn’t take care of it. Which means if she stays on it, she will need a dental cleaning every year. Putting a dog under anesthesia is risky and something I would like to avoid.

But as you said wisely, we both need a break !
 

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Discussion Starter · #189 ·
Here is the comparison between the food she does well on and the food she does worse on. The ingredients in both foods are in bold. It isn’t helping but at least now I know !

Royal canin anallergenic (best food)
474374


Purina H/A (worse food)
474375
 

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Okay, so the potentially triggering ingredients are:

Hydrolyzed soy protein isolate
Partially hydrogenated canola oil preserved with TBHQ
Tricalcium phosphate
Dicalcium phosphate
Corn oil
Guar gum
Salt
Zinc sulfate
Vitamin E supplement
Manganese sulfate
Vitamin A supplement
Garlic oil
Calcium iodate
Menadione sodium bisulfite complex (vitamin K)
C-2626

Is there any other food she’s tolerated well? If so, you can look at the ingredients in that one, and cross any overlap off this list.
 

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Discussion Starter · #191 ·
Is there any other food she’s tolerated well? If so, you can look at the ingredients in that one, and cross any overlap off this list.
Thank you ! I’ll add that to her journal. Unfortunately it’s the only food. She can eat apples and bananas but they’re not on the list so not helping.

Soon I’ll be trying hypoallergenic treats and maybe I can cross more on the list.
 

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Thank you ! I’ll add that to her journal. Unfortunately it’s the only food. She can eat apples and bananas but they’re not on the list so not helping.

Soon I’ll be trying hypoallergenic treats and maybe I can cross more on the list.
I’m glad she can enjoy those fresh, yummy foods. :)

By doing the same process myself, I actually ruled out food triggers, which was disappointing at first. But that ultimately helped me determine it was shampoo that was causing Peggy’s horrible crusty eyes. Hooray!!

I know that’s not the case for Beckie, but stay hopeful. A revelation might be right around the corner.
 

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My Spoo also does well with Apples (only Organic, Not others!) and Bananas (any):)
He only does well with Earthbath shampoos (Not their conditioners).

He is also does really well with totally 100% grass fed beef, wild venison, and organically raised hogs, and rabbit (Parts or whole, not ground). And chickens or eggs from totally pasture raised and organically fed chickens. (Plus any animal parts from wild animals, etc, ) (Only organs like liver from 100 % grass fed or 100% organically grown beef , chicken, etc)

I spent a bunch of money on supposedly Organic Liver from several health food stores in Colorado, and it made him sick... I now only buy from personnally known farmers)

NOT any of the expensive raw food mixes premade, or any ground meats. NOT any of the 'cage free' or other fake explanations for free range chicken which is then supplemented with GMO feed, etc.

I so hope your loved one gets well and finds good food:)
 

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He is also does really well with totally 100% grass fed beef, wild venison, and organically raised hogs, and rabbit (Parts or whole, not ground). And chickens or eggs from totally pasture raised and organically fed chickens. (Plus any animal parts from wild animals, etc, ) (Only organs like liver from 100 % grass fed or 100% organically grown beef , chicken, etc)
Not to hijack but how did you discover this? Who'd think that the culprit wasn't the protein source but what the protein source was fed?
 

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Some of the worst meat and produce farming practices qualify as organic these days, and the hoops you have to jump through for this certification are increasingly impractical for non-industrial farmers. That’s why many of our local farmers focus on traditional, sustainable methods and don’t bother with USDA certification.

So I don’t personally get too hung up on that label. But corn-fed animals could absolutely be a problem if you or your dog has a severe corn allergy. Same with soy. And industrial chicken breasts are much more fatty than those from even 20 years ago, which I would imagine can also cause digestion issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #196 ·
Update : Beckie is still back on Royal canin anallergenic and I’ve decided she will stay on it. Two days ago I gave her some Royal canin hypoallergenic treats that I bought at the vet food store. The clerk had told me the ingredients were the same as the food and I didn’t check them (my bad).

I gave her one treat (a little bigger than a quarter) one day and another one the next day. The same night she had the treat, she started licking frantically. Next day, same thing. That’s when I got suspicious and checked the ingredients. The first ingredient was hydrolyzed soy protein, the same first ingredient in the Purina H/A that gave her a bad reaction! On the third day, this morning, even though I had not given her any, she was still bothered and licking a lot. Then it hit me that her glands were probably full !

So I got an appointment the same day (this morning). Even though they were emptied only 3 weeks ago (one gland was even empty then), both glands were full and the liquid coming out was green (it is usually mostly brown). The technician said to monitor her and have her checked by a vet if she continues licking more than 1-2 days because it could be an infection.

This seems to confirm my theory that there is a link between a reaction to food and the glands filling up more than usual.

While at the vet, I asked the technician to check if Beckies back teeth were getting dirty from the food, as I thought Royal canin anallergenic was sticking to the teeth. She said her teeth are perfect, no food stuck. A little stained, but that’s normal. So this reassures me that she won’t need dental cleaning often because of this food and I’ve decided she is staying on it. It’s not my ideal food, but I will complement it with as many healthy treats as she can tolerate, such as apples, bananes, carrots, nuts, yogurt or whatever she can have.

I also made an appointment for her 4th cytopoint injection. We’re not at the point yet where we can definitely say they are not needed.

I’m feeling more positive even though we still have a challenge coming our way (summer allergies).

(Oh, and I asked for a call from the derm vet but she hasn’t called back. It’s the second time. I’m not impressed but I don’t feel like starting over. I will let her know at my next appointment that I don’t feel their customer care is adequate).
 

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The soy link is interesting. There are claims that livestock fed soy can trigger allergic reaction in people who are allergic to it if they eat the meat, although research indicates otherwise.
 

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Good catch, Dechi! Very poor of the person selling them to mislead you like that. :(

Some info on soy protein allergies....

“The Nestle-Purina HA soy-based hydrolysate diet was fed for 2 weeks to 14 crossbreed dogs that were known to be allergic to soy and/or corn.25 Of the 14 dogs, 3 reacted adversely to the hydrolysed soy diet, all of which were hypersensitive to both soy and corn, so it is uncertain to what fraction the dogs were reacting to. This study demonstrated for the first time, that a commercially available hydrolysate diet can be fed to the majority of dogs sensitized to the intact source protein without eliciting clinical signs. However, it also indicated that a significant proportion (21%) of dogs sensitized to the intact compounds will still react adversely to the hydrolysed diet. This re-emphasizes the limitations of the currently available hydrolysed protein diets. For maximum confidence in performing an elimination diet trial, it is still important - even when using a hydrolysed protein diet - to obtain an accurate dietary history and to choose a diet that contains ingredients the patient is unlikely to be sensitized to.”


I’m sure Beckie loves the healthier, whole food treats anyway. Maybe you could dehydrate a batch of her favourite fruits in your oven on low heat. Or, if that would be bad for her teeth, freeze little dabs of yogurt for “crunchy” treats.
 

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Off topic, but wondering if the tolerance for yoghurt (what about cheese?) When she seems to react to everything else would allow future hypoallergenic formulas to be made with whey protein as a novel source.

For now- glad she has something that mostly works, even if it is feathers!

I wonder if she could handle hamster yoghurt drops sometime in the far future when you are feeling adventurous.
 

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Discussion Starter · #200 ·
I’m sure Beckie loves the healthier, whole food treats anyway. Maybe you could dehydrate a batch of her favourite fruits in your oven on low heat. Or, if that would be bad for her teeth, freeze little dabs of yogurt for “crunchy” treats.
That’s a very good idea ! When I get to the point of testing yogurt, I’ll keep that in mind. Dehydrated fruits could be an occasional treat also. :)
 
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