[ziggylu]

Hi

New here. New to Standard Poodles. We are considering adding one to our family.

We have found a litter with available puppies we are considering. We do have puppy raising experience, though the breed is new to us.

Anyway....we're wondering how concerned we should be about base narrow lower canines in 9 week old puppy? Everything else checks out OK. We've seen health testing for sire and dam and past generations for hips, eyes, skin, thyroid, von willebrands. We've met the dam and she's well-tempered. All dogs were in teh house and well-mannered, well-tempered. Environment very clean. 13 of 14 in 3 gen pedigree are titled. Breeder only whelps litters every couple years. In other words, everything else seems good and on the up and up. Breeder has answered any and all questions and been up front. She pointed out the tooth issue to us.

Should this tooth issue be a concern? She is asking what would be considered full price for him on a limited registration and neuter contract. I'm finding conflicting information as to how big a deal this tooth issue might be? Could this be a painful and/or expensive issue in the future(we have the resources but wondre about paying the same or more to fix the bite as it might cost to buy the puppy for instance)? She presented it as not a big deal and we can massage the tooth outwards as the adult teeth come in. My concern is if this doesnt work and more expensive fixes might be needed?

This is all new to us as we've had rescue dogs before. I guess my main question is two fold: Can we expect it to cause the puppy pain and behavior issues until fixed? (he was very sweet and seemed to have no temperment issues but didn't seem much into toys...could that be due to mouth pain perhaps?). Should this make the price negotiable or is this considered a non-issue as he is otherwise seemingly a well-bred puppy?

 

[rubymom]

This has been an issue I have been gathering LOTS of info on since learning that my Ruby has this problem! My vet discovered this on her 1st puppy visit 24 hours after I brought her home. (Ruby was 11 weeks old). He advised me to have the tooth extracted in order to allow the permanent tooth to come into a normal position as it grows in. Ruby had the tooth rmoved a week ago and is doing fine. We will be keeping close watch because if it appears that the permanent tooth is NOT growing into a normal bite position, then Ruby will have to see an orthodonist for further treatment. (there are several treatment options at that point)
I bought lots of toys/balls for her to chew on (they are suppose to help "spread" the bite pressure normally and better facilitate normal canine position.)
And like you, I've been surfing the web learning what I can on this condition! Hopefully this early treatment plan will correct things so we won't have to take more detailed measures!

 

[markfsanderson]

Canine Tooth Issue . . .

Have her modify the contract she'll sign with you (I'm assuming that she does have a contract) so that she is responsible for paying for surgery if a vet or vets(3?) state that it's a problem that should be resolved. This would, in effect, reduce the purchase price of the puppy by the cost of the surgery. Or perhaps ask for half if your more comfortable with that . . .
Have you spoken to a vet about it? What is the 'ball-park' cost of corrective surgery if needed? What are the risks? These are question to ask a good vet . . .I can't tell where you live, (welcome to the forum!) it's good to fill out your profile information so we can see which part of the world you live. If you lived in South East Texas, then I'd recommend calling/talking to the Vets at Texas A&M. Good Luck!

Mark, Jamie and The Poodle Gangsters!

 

[rubymom]

Sorry.....forgot to add that Ruby already had a tiny puncture in her upper pallet from the lower canine when my vet discovered the problem!
I'm sure it caused her discomfort! One thing for sure, she definitely has been eating with more vigor since the extraction!
I would definitely check this pups mouth to see if a puncture is forming from the misplaced canine! And as far as cost and treatment, there is no way of knowing how intensive/ expensive it could get up the road. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

 

[wishpoo]

Bad bite is mine personal "pet peeve" .

I would never buy a puppy with a bad bite since nobody can know how will bite develop later :rolffleyes: Some would say that it is true with a good bite also, that it can go off when adult teeth come in - but I would guess that that happening has MUCH smaller chance.

It can be very costly to correct the problem (surgery, braces) etc. (braces are about 2,000 $). It can also correct itself if it is a small "off" bite and it can be helped with a daily manipulation of the mandible, but there is no guarantee.

I would take markfsanderson advice if you really want that puppy after all.

 

[cbrand]

Base Canine narrow is common in poodle puppies. In every case I have seen it resolve itself when the adult teeth come in. Pushing on the emerging adult canines a couple of times a day can help them flair. Once they are long enough to clear the outer gum, they will hold themselves in place.

As a breeder, I don't recommend pulling baby teeth because I think they help guide the adult teeth into the correct place. I have not seen that puppies have issues with the baby canines poking into the palate. They seem to eat and play normally.

If for some reason the adult canines don't clear, I would pull them. I would not pay for expensive orthodontia or for things like crowns.

 

[rubymom]

Cbrand, I'm hopeful at your experience of the "self correction" !
But, because there was already a hole puncture from the lower canine, extraction seemed the best option for Ruby at this point in time. hwell:
Sure hope things will correct themselves in the coming months!

 

[Fluffyspoos]

Vegas had this, my breeder let me know, showed me what to do, I pushed the teeth out when the adult teeth were coming in, no problem anymore at all.

 

[rubymom]

I'm feeling better hearing another positive result!

 

[tintlet]

over the years we have had several puppies ( all different lines) that had misaligned baby teeth. They normally fall in place when adult teeth come in. One of the puppies in our last litter did NOT align right. Her baby tooth was aimed inward and the adult tooth aimed out better. But it still di not clear the gum line and made a hole between the teeth.
The ortho vet said it was NO narrow based under jaw, but just a misdirected tooth. The ball therapy helped, but she ended up having to get a temp plate to direct the tooth. it should be fine in 4-5 weeks as it was "almost" normal.

In all the poodles we groom, I have only seen ONE adult misaligned canine tooth. ( we check all the dogs teeth)

 

[rubymom]

tintlet, by chance, were you referred to a specialist in the charlotte or Raleigh area? (I noticed that there is a specialist located there.)

 

[Fluffyspoos]

22 weeks

23 weeks

24 weeks

26 weeks

This is from pushing the teeth out every day, with hard pressure. It didn't appear to be painful for him at all, he let me do it, and got a tree when we were done.

 

[ziggylu]

Thank you for your replies. After talking with our vet and speaking with the breeder again, we've worked out an acceptable resolution with the breeder and will go ahead and bring the puppy home I believe.

I learned quite a bit reading this forum when we were researching poodles and breeders. Thank you for you help.

 

[rubymom]

Just thought that I would update everyone on Ruby.
She was referred to a specialist that recommended braces.
Even with frequent pressure manipluations daily, the lower left canine came in misaligned to the point of making a hole in the top pallet. (The right lower canine was striking the upper canine somewhat, so that side also required braces.) Specialist says she has seen much worse and expects that once fixed, Ruby will be fine. We go back in two weeks for check. At that point, the plane may be put into place. If not ready for the plane then, we'll give it a few more weeks.
Now, my challenge is keeping a 5 month old puppy entertained WITHOUT chew toys! hwell:

 

[Desiree]

Thanks for the update and pics.

 

[CharismaticMillie]

aw poor baby!!!!!

 

[spoospirit]

Wow! I have never seen braces on a dog before. I happy that there is a way to fix the problem.

 

[Fluffyspoos]

Interesting! I'm really sorry to hear that you couldn't push them out on your own I would've been really upset if I couldn't. I hope the braces works for her!

 

[partial2poodles]

Wow, I LOVE that something CAN be done. Its amazing how far animal medicine has come and I am glad to know someone who benefitted their dog by it.

 

[neVar]

my friend breeds jrt's and had a pup with this in thd last litter. Her vet had her freaking out about it- appointment booked with the specialist who called her back cancelling stating that 'relax it's nothing if the adult teeth come in funny THEN we'll look at it"

teeth came in fine.

it wouldnot bother me but i would want it stated that IF it needed pulling that cost was at least partially covered.

i've also seen 'perfect' bite at 8 weeks need hlp when the adults come in