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Attacked but ok

5K views 44 replies 22 participants last post by  hrsldy 
#1 ·
Found out today that I can scream bloody murder (and I now really understand that phrase) when Neo and Remo are in danger. We were walking today in our neighborhood as we do daily, weather permitting. We'd reached the turn back point when I saw a tiny unleashed Yorkie skedaddle across the street and up the road in the general direction we were heading. The game was afoot.

We followed the Yorkie til the pup peeled off into an unfenced yard and ran to the back door. I was hoping that was home so we went around to the front door, rang and knocked with no response but I heard someone come down the inside stairs and then what sounded like the back door open and close. With still no response, I went to look in the back again and no visible Yorkie. I could only hope the pup was home.

We found ourselves on a block we don't usually walk so I'm not as familiar with the potential hazards. We were coming up to a house which had two madly barking dogs at the glass storm door. They were barking and leaping on the door when it sprang open and they sprang loose, racing towards my boys with clearly no good intentions. I was screaming at them as they approached with no effect. They hit like an F5 tornado.

Remo managed to distance himself at the end of his leash but Neo applied himself to my leg as they hit. He was screaming, I was screaming, I was trying to get him out of reach, keep an eye on Remo, hope that help would come, wondering if I should be kicking the attackers. As I got Neo up, the two were biting Neo's feet and legs. Help came.

The missus came out and got control of hers rather quickly. And, no, not a visibly pit type. The larger looked something of a medium sized village dog undecipherable mix, well muscled, and the smaller looked chihuahuaesque. Missus and Mister were very apologetic and saying the right things. Mister was a bit extreme in his solution, saying he would have his dogs killed asap. Missus managed him and he ended saying he'd just hide them so they wouldn't be taken away and killed. I told him neither solution was needed but he felt no one could be trusted to keep their word.

There was blood so I called DH and we decided to go directly to the ER vet. Neo has one for sure small puncture wound on his leg. Per the doc, there might be more but believes probably not. Wound cleaned, no stitching, no bandages, no xray, RX for antibiotics and back at home a while ago. Otherwise, he and Remo seem to have recovered from the initial trauma.

I also have a small scratch, the full poop bag was shredded so Neo ended up getting some of his own back. This could have easily been so much worse. It wasn't. For that, I'm grateful.

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#2 ·
I feel for you and your babies. This is a story I hear way way too many times and have had experienced myself. In this case, it doesn't sound like full negligence on the part of the owner as the dogs were not roaming free but still they are at fault for not being aware their door was not strong enough to withstand the pounding. I would wager this had happened before as you can't be the first person to walk down the street with a dog and cause pressure to hit the door. Sadly though, there is a small chance you were the first and the door in the past was just weakened until you lost the lottery and it finally broke.

You know you are within your rights to ask that the vet bills be covered. If it was me, I would show them the actual bill and say you would rather handle it between good neighbors and not risk the authorities as then their babies may be confiscated. I would be sure if it was me to present this in a most diplomatic way. If they refuse, you would then have to decide how much you feel they were not taking reasonable care to contain their dogs and proceed by following your heart.

If they do pay up, you may want to plant a seed and just ask "for a friend" how they have fixed strengthening their door because your "friend" has the same problem and when she heard your story really wanted to make sure she did everything she could to make sure her dogs didn't get in a fight and be taken away, or worse - lose the fight and their life.

I'm glad it wasn't worse. But I wish it didn't happen at all. Have good hugs and give lots of healing hugs. And a cyber hug to you too.
 
#3 ·
We read about this sort of thing all the time, but it hits me harder that a bad encounter could have been a disaster for you and little Neo and maybe Remo. Thank God they weren't huge dogs with high prey drives, aka Pits.

I'm so sorry Rose that went through this, so glad everyone, including you, are okay.
 
#4 ·
Thank you for us all.

They offered immediately to cover the vet cost, which also could have been a lot worse. They gave nothing away, if it has happened before, but thought that probably the door hadn't latched fully while bringing in the groceries. It's plausible. The Mister, while not seeming at all agitated, was offering some extreme ideas, so if they don't follow thru, I'm more inclined to let it drop with them but may consider following up thru conventional routes.

I would feel a responsibility if this should happen again to someone else. As you said, the dogs were in their own house, til they broke out, so I wouldn't call it negligence in their dog ownership either, but their door maintenance was a bit lacking. That's a good nonjudgmental approach you suggested.

Oddly, a similar incident happened last summer on a street closer to home. The lab of our neighbor, who is also our plumber (how's that for luck lol), managed to paw down the levered handle of the storm door and came bouncing out to greet the boys on our way home. With him I felt no danger, but the boys were not liking that at all. They still shy a bit when we go by there, His person was also pretty quickly responsive.
 
#7 ·
I've been nearby when pepper spray was deployed and it was awful. Took my breath away and others required emergency treatment.

I wonder if there are better options out there. I keep a whistle attached to my jacket, near my mouth so I could easily call for help in emergency situations. But I'd like to add some sort of spray.
 
#8 ·
In Ajijic, Mexico, a lot of the dog owners carried a can of wasp spray. It looked bulky to carry and I wondered about the long term effects on the dogs or them for that matter. Then there was the tiny little lady that carried a long cattle prod. I got that as a better option as the shock is short term. But she looked very nutty walking around with the thing.
 
#9 ·
I learned a few other things today about just what's possible in the lightspeed these attacks seem to happen in. Instinct is practically all you have unless you've literally trained for this.

Does anyone know if there's such a thing as safety training classes to attend? Not person safety only but to protect your dog/s too. There's no way I'm letting them fend for themselves. If you don't have practiced techniques and muscle memory working for you, you're all in danger.

When this subject has come up before, I'd thought about carrying an umbrella or walking stick. That's not even a little realistic when you're managing two pups. I keep a whistle handy, not even a nanosecond available to grab it, and I needed my hands to do other things.

If this should ever happen again, my feet are my only weapon. I understand that now. Letting go the leashes crossed my mind for that split second but I split second decided that wasn't right here. Neo was plastered to me and up was the only way to keep him even a bit safe. Remo, sensibly and shaking, just tried to stay invisible.
 
#11 ·
I learned a few other things today about just what's possible in the lightspeed these attacks seem to happen in. Instinct is practically all you have unless you've literally trained for this.

Does anyone know if there's such a thing as safety training classes to attend? Not person safety only but to protect your dog/s too. There's no way I'm letting them fend for themselves. If you don't have practiced techniques and muscle memory working for you, you're all in danger.

When this subject has come up before, I'd thought about carrying an umbrella or walking stick. That's not even a little realistic when you're managing two pups. I keep a whistle handy, not even a nanosecond available to grab it, and I needed my hands to do other things.

If this should ever happen again, my feet are my only weapon. I understand that now. Letting go the leashes crossed my mind for that split second but I split second decided that wasn't right here. Neo was plastered to me and up was the only way to keep him even a bit safe. Remo, sensibly and shaking, just tried to stay invisible.
I don't know if there's something like that or not, but I've been wondering the same thing.
 
#14 ·
Self-defense with a canine focus would be an excellent class. I'd certainly take it! But I've never heard of one, at least not around here.

It's pretty remarkable how our bodies take over when supercharged with adrenaline. You're right that it would be helpful to have muscle memory kick in. Otherwise it's easy to make things worse, such as by sticking your vulnerable hands into the danger zone (as I foolishly did when Peggy was attacked at our local dog park).

I think wearing sturdy footwear is a good start. No flip-flops or sandals. But that wouldn't be much help when confronted with a pit, GSD, or similar.

I've heard you're supposed to stick your finger in an attacking dog's bum, or lift their hind legs. But imagine having the presence of mind to do so? Or even the ability to maneuver yourself into the right position? Seems unlikely in most heightened situations, unless you're at a dog park or similar, where you're apart from your dog and approaching the fight from the outside.
 
#15 ·
Self-defense with a canine focus would be an excellent class
I've done a quick search and found nothing like. This sounds like a business waiting to happen!

------------

Hijacking my own thread for a minute

And I meant to mention earlier that I thanked the staff at the clinic on behalf of Poodle Forum and my family. I asked them to please pass on the good wishes to the staff not there tonight.

I've seen several threads re the stress animal health workers are under and wanted them to know that a body such as PF recognizes and appreciates what they do and how hard it can be for them.

The vet, who was already very nice, just lit up and talked for a few minutes about how hard it can be for them too.

Thanks PF for recognizing those efforts!
 
#16 ·
I've done a quick search and found nothing like. This sounds like a business waiting to happen!

------------

Hijacking my own thread for a minute

And I meant to mention earlier that I thanked the staff at the clinic on behalf of Poodle Forum and my family. I asked them to please pass on the good wishes to the staff not there tonight.

I've seen several threads re the stress animal health workers are under and wanted them to know that a body such as PF recognizes and appreciates what they do and how hard it can be for them.

The vet, who was already very nice, just lit up and talked for a few minutes about how hard it can be for them too.

Thanks PF for recognizing those efforts!
It does sound like a business waiting to happen!

That's awesome that you did that. Yeah, I've read things about the stress that Animal Health Workers are under. I'm so glad that the vet lit up
 
#20 ·
I am glad you and the pups are ok. It must have been very scary. I hope the family will strengthen their door so that this does not happen again. I do hope they pay the vet bill it could have gone a lot for for them too if you weren't a calm dog loving person who understood that things do happen and if you make it right life goes on as normal. Some people would be ready to sue them right off the bat, even if it were an accident. I have had dogs run a me and my dogs too, its not pleasant. My motto is fix the problem so it doesn't happen again. If they do not well then another story. I like the link Vita shared for pepper spray. I'd hate to use it but it could save a life.
 
#21 ·
What an awful experience. You seem quite resilient and resourceful, which is good. I think personal protection trainers cover dog attack training, just with a focus on human protection. Those lessons could be modified to suit your purpose perhaps.
Sending healing thoughts for Neo.
 
#22 ·
I am sorry this happened to you but very happy that you are not too badly off physically.

Make sure you are alert to signs of PTSD in yourself and your dogs. When you walk make sure you project a relaxed rather than fearful attitude to Neo and Remo.

For all attending to this discussion before you resort to pepper spray make sure it is legal to use where you are located so that you don't face any legal fallout if you ever use it. An alternative to consider is citronella spray. Citronella won't stop a red zone (serious about intention to maim or kill) dog but it will deter many lower level interactions.

As to what to do if you have an encounter with an aggressive dog I know you won't want to hear this, but you need to protect yourself first. Picking a small dog up in a serious attack can result in you being killed or maimed. Hanging onto the leash of any dog restricts their ability to do what they believe they need to do to save themselves. I took Lily and Javelin for a walk in my neighborhood yesterday (along a carefully chosen route). However I was completely prepared to drop both of the leashes if we met an off leash dog while we were out. They would have been better able to make a retreat or to make a meaningful defense if loose.

A few years ago a woman from our neighborhood was walking down our street with her yorkie when she was approached by a rottie. She tried to run away and fell and let go of her dog. There was no person in sight related to the rottie and he had no leash. The woman was screaming and the yorkie was hiding in the bushes across the street from us. Yorkie was fine, hadn't been touched. Woman had a few scrapes from falling. The rottie was actually a really nicee dog, totally non aggressive. BF had been able to get him under control. I brought out a leash and called 911. It was a Sunday morning so that was the only way to ultimately get to animal control. The responding officer was able to call the woman's daughters. She only spoke Chinese. Her daughters came and we made sure the woman did not need ER care. I got her little dog and checked it over. They went home and the responding officer stayed out front with the rottie tied to the stop sign until Animal Control came and took him to the town shelter. The officer, BF and I all noted that the rottie looked really well cared for. We all sort of hoped that he went into breed rescue since we were really suspicious about his back story. A car with a couple of youngish guys had taken slow pass drive bys looking at the dog but no one showed up to say the dog was theirs. We figured those kids knew who the dog belonged to but told them not to come get him since the police were there.

As to the yorkie i think a large part of why it was fine was because it was able to retreat under some low and dense shrubs. This could have had a very different outcome if the little dog had been picked up.
 
#26 ·
I can only imagine how frightening that... and possibly still is for you and the little ones? I hate that Neo got bit and was screaming like that. Zeke was attacked three times (by my own other dog) and was bit a three times in the last fight. The screaming from Zeke was horrible so I know how that made you feel. I am so sorry you had to experience this. And I’m glad the pups are pretty much okay. I hope they did/do well on subsequent walks.

And yes a people and doggy defense class is a business waiting to happen! It would be such a popular thing to do for all dog owners I think. Have any spare time?
 
#27 ·
Yellow that point about getting hold of the aggressor by the hind legs and "wheelbarrowing" them is actually really important to remember. As long as you have a firm grip on them as you scream for help it can give the dog(s) at the raw end of the deal a chance to escape.

As to having a course on what to do if you get attacked I don't see much business there. What would you do, have red zone dogs in a mixed group with people and dogs you were teaching? There is no way to simulate an attack safely. It actually would be much better if people all trained their dogs and kept an eye on what they were up to. In the case of a dog that bolts a door the owner should just lock the door. Our front and side storm doors have handles rather than knobs and all of our dogs know they can lean on them to open them. We even lock the side storm door if one of our males is in the yard by themselves since we don't leave them together unattended. None of our dogs has ever escaped our property. We make sure that is not possible.

We are more concerned about the dog over our back fence getting into our yard. She actually slammed into the fence so hard last week that she popped a panel out and could have gotten into our yard. I was out with Peeves and collecting eggs at the time. Nothing actually occurred that was all that bad. And that is because we don't leave our dogs unattended in the yard. The neighbor leaves this pit/pit mix unattended all the time. She has no toys, no shelter to relax in and therefore whenever she hears us in the yard she rams into it. I have spoken to the husband previously about this issue. This time I got the wife. I told her if the dog got into my yard again I would kill it to defend my own dogs and/or my chickens. I also said I felt sorry for her dog since it has no meaningful interactions with the family or gets to see anything outside the rubble filled backyard. I am still thinking about calling the SPCA about this last round. The only real fix for this is for the other dog to have a better life as a meaningful part of its family and a better set up in their back yard to prevent the conditions that led to the fenceline event last week. That would not be solved by defense training.
 
#28 ·
Yellow that point about getting hold of the aggressor by the hind legs and "wheelbarrowing" them is actually really important to remember. As long as you have a firm grip on them as you scream for help it can give the dog(s) at the raw end of the deal a chance to escape.

As to having a course on what to do if you get attacked I don't see much business there. What would you do, have red zone dogs in a mixed group with people and dogs you were teaching? There is no way to simulate an attack safely. It actually would be much better if people all trained their dogs and kept an eye on what they were up to. In the case of a dog that bolts a door the owner should just lock the door. Our front and side storm doors have handles rather than knobs and all of our dogs know they can lean on them to open them. We even lock the side storm door if one of our males is in the yard by themselves since we don't leave them together unattended. None of our dogs has ever escaped our property. We make sure that is not possible.

We are more concerned about the dog over our back fence getting into our yard. She actually slammed into the fence so hard last week that she popped a panel out and could have gotten into our yard. I was out with Peeves and collecting eggs at the time. Nothing actually occurred that was all that bad. And that is because we don't leave our dogs unattended in the yard. The neighbor leaves this pit/pit mix unattended all the time. She has no toys, no shelter to relax in and therefore whenever she hears us in the yard she rams into it. I have spoken to the husband previously about this issue. This time I got the wife. I told her if the dog got into my yard again I would kill it to defend my own dogs and/or my chickens. I also said I felt sorry for her dog since it has no meaningful interactions with the family or gets to see anything outside the rubble filled backyard. I am still thinking about calling the SPCA about this last round. The only real fix for this is for the other dog to have a better life as a meaningful part of its family and a better set up in their back yard to prevent the conditions that led to the fenceline event last week. That would not be solved by defense training.
 
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#29 ·
I don't think you need a dangerous dog to demonstrate (or even just discuss) some best practises for responding to an attack. Grabbing the hind legs, for example, is not something most people would think to do.

I'm going to suggest to our trainer that she consider addressing this topic in an upcoming class. Even just conversationally. We've got a few quite fragile folks in our current session. I think just hearing that they should drop the leash could be hugely beneficial.

How're the dogs doing today, Rose n Poos? And how are YOU doing?
 
#30 ·
Rose n Poos, OMG I was scared just reading this. Poor Nemo and Remo. I hope they aren't too traumatized by this experience.

I only have one dog to worry about on a leash - but I realize it's even scarier with multiple dogs.

One problem with sprays like pepper spray, if the wind is blowing towards you, the spray will hit and immoblize you and not your intended victim. In the heat of the moment you may not realize this. I often think an umbrella would help - opening it up makes you larger and scarier and it's a stick to hit with. But I never think to take one when walking.

I too would love to take a course - thinks like this need to be practiced so you have muscle memory to take over.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Hi everybody!

Thanks again for asking after us. We all seem to be pretty well recovered. We took a walk today and the boys behaved completely normally. The true test will be walking by that house again and/or the next time we get rushed. It could have been so much worse, but it wasn't.

Mister and Missus stepped up and covered the vet bill today. They also added a bag of Greenies Pill Pockets, some Rachel Ray treats, a gift card to a nice local restaurant, a Panera Cinnamon Crumb Coffee Cake, repeated apologies, promises that they'll make sure the door is latched in the future, that they'll check their back yard fence line (which borders another walk route we take) and more apologies. This was by Missus and Son. Mister stayed in the house.

In an odd way, I'm grateful for this experience. I've learned that I won't freeze in an attack, I will mostly keep my head and try to assess and act within the situation.

I see Catherine's point about not using live, particularly not red zone, dogs, but think discussions and practicing actions will be of value to many owners. Damaging sprays can be substituted by compressed air or something, waffle bats or something a bit more substantial can be swung at inanimate targets (like those boxing body thingys), even dropping leashes which is counter to most training. All these actions can be practiced so that they become familiar. Presence of mind can't really be taught, but if actions are familiar, they may think for you.

I'm thinking a riding crop might be an easy carry. I've hardly ridden, and never had one in my hands. Those of you familiar with them, would they have enough wallop?

ETA I know wallop is not their intended use on a horse!
 
#41 ·
I'm thinking a riding crop might be an easy carry. I've hardly ridden, and never had one in my hands. Those of you familiar with them, would they have enough wallop?
Personally I would carry a heavy golf umbrella. You can open it to block eye contact between the dogs and get some shielding for yourself. It would buy you some time for help to arrive. You can also use it to whack a rude dog.

My second choice would be a heavy hiking staff. I would want something heavy enough to put an aggressive dog out of commission when I swung it. See my post in Vita's thread to understand a bit more about my position here.

Regarding any kind of horse whip, I think they will only be useful against rude dogs. An aggressive dog in a full out attack has its brain shut off. It won't notice the pain, or the pain will only add to its frenzy.

If you do want to carry a horse whip to deter rude dogs, I would choose something longer than a riding crop. Keep some distance between you and the dog. A dressage whip is about three feet long. A carriage whip is five or six feet long with a short lash. A lunge whip is similar, but it has a very long lash. I wouldn't recommend a lunge whip, because the lash will just get tangled on things. At this length, though, you might as well just carry a staff or an umbrella.
 
#32 ·
I'm really happy those folks stepped up so immediately and wholeheartedly. Happy, too, that you got out for a walk today. Impressive!

I used to ride and still have my crops. I don't think they'd be very helpful, unfortunately. To get an effective whipping action, you'd need some distance. And even still, I don't think they'd deter a dog in attack mode. They're pretty flimsy.

I just read an article that said sprays can be effective, as long as they don't pose a risk to you (as pepper sprays could). They mention a fire extinguisher, but said even whipped cream would work??? Basically just anything that expands as it sprays is what you want to reach for. But I dunno..... Hard to know who to believe.
 
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