What an awful experience. You seem quite resilient and resourceful, which is good. I think personal protection trainers cover dog attack training, just with a focus on human protection. Those lessons could be modified to suit your purpose perhaps.
Sending healing thoughts for Neo.
I am sorry this happened to you but very happy that you are not too badly off physically.
Make sure you are alert to signs of PTSD in yourself and your dogs. When you walk make sure you project a relaxed rather than fearful attitude to Neo and Remo.
For all attending to this discussion before you resort to pepper spray make sure it is legal to use where you are located so that you don't face any legal fallout if you ever use it. An alternative to consider is citronella spray. Citronella won't stop a red zone (serious about intention to maim or kill) dog but it will deter many lower level interactions.
As to what to do if you have an encounter with an aggressive dog I know you won't want to hear this, but you need to protect yourself first. Picking a small dog up in a serious attack can result in you being killed or maimed. Hanging onto the leash of any dog restricts their ability to do what they believe they need to do to save themselves. I took Lily and Javelin for a walk in my neighborhood yesterday (along a carefully chosen route). However I was completely prepared to drop both of the leashes if we met an off leash dog while we were out. They would have been better able to make a retreat or to make a meaningful defense if loose.
A few years ago a woman from our neighborhood was walking down our street with her yorkie when she was approached by a rottie. She tried to run away and fell and let go of her dog. There was no person in sight related to the rottie and he had no leash. The woman was screaming and the yorkie was hiding in the bushes across the street from us. Yorkie was fine, hadn't been touched. Woman had a few scrapes from falling. The rottie was actually a really nicee dog, totally non aggressive. BF had been able to get him under control. I brought out a leash and called 911. It was a Sunday morning so that was the only way to ultimately get to animal control. The responding officer was able to call the woman's daughters. She only spoke Chinese. Her daughters came and we made sure the woman did not need ER care. I got her little dog and checked it over. They went home and the responding officer stayed out front with the rottie tied to the stop sign until Animal Control came and took him to the town shelter. The officer, BF and I all noted that the rottie looked really well cared for. We all sort of hoped that he went into breed rescue since we were really suspicious about his back story. A car with a couple of youngish guys had taken slow pass drive bys looking at the dog but no one showed up to say the dog was theirs. We figured those kids knew who the dog belonged to but told them not to come get him since the police were there.
As to the yorkie i think a large part of why it was fine was because it was able to retreat under some low and dense shrubs. This could have had a very different outcome if the little dog had been picked up.
My husband carries bear spray with him when he is hiking with the Lab. Yes, other dogs and critters are where he goes. I have a small toy with a harness and easy to pick her up by the leash if need be. But when I get my mini I will have some sort of spray with me in case there is a nasty dog. Yes pick up the back legs of the aggressive dog
I'm so glad to hear that you, Neo and Remo are ok! This type of situation is one of my biggest fears, and I really hate that it happened to a PF friend. Hope that you are recovering emotionally also.
I can only imagine how frightening that... and possibly still is for you and the little ones? I hate that Neo got bit and was screaming like that. Zeke was attacked three times (by my own other dog) and was bit a three times in the last fight. The screaming from Zeke was horrible so I know how that made you feel. I am so sorry you had to experience this. And I’m glad the pups are pretty much okay. I hope they did/do well on subsequent walks.
And yes a people and doggy defense class is a business waiting to happen! It would be such a popular thing to do for all dog owners I think. Have any spare time?
Yellow that point about getting hold of the aggressor by the hind legs and "wheelbarrowing" them is actually really important to remember. As long as you have a firm grip on them as you scream for help it can give the dog(s) at the raw end of the deal a chance to escape.
As to having a course on what to do if you get attacked I don't see much business there. What would you do, have red zone dogs in a mixed group with people and dogs you were teaching? There is no way to simulate an attack safely. It actually would be much better if people all trained their dogs and kept an eye on what they were up to. In the case of a dog that bolts a door the owner should just lock the door. Our front and side storm doors have handles rather than knobs and all of our dogs know they can lean on them to open them. We even lock the side storm door if one of our males is in the yard by themselves since we don't leave them together unattended. None of our dogs has ever escaped our property. We make sure that is not possible.
We are more concerned about the dog over our back fence getting into our yard. She actually slammed into the fence so hard last week that she popped a panel out and could have gotten into our yard. I was out with Peeves and collecting eggs at the time. Nothing actually occurred that was all that bad. And that is because we don't leave our dogs unattended in the yard. The neighbor leaves this pit/pit mix unattended all the time. She has no toys, no shelter to relax in and therefore whenever she hears us in the yard she rams into it. I have spoken to the husband previously about this issue. This time I got the wife. I told her if the dog got into my yard again I would kill it to defend my own dogs and/or my chickens. I also said I felt sorry for her dog since it has no meaningful interactions with the family or gets to see anything outside the rubble filled backyard. I am still thinking about calling the SPCA about this last round. The only real fix for this is for the other dog to have a better life as a meaningful part of its family and a better set up in their back yard to prevent the conditions that led to the fenceline event last week. That would not be solved by defense training.
Yellow that point about getting hold of the aggressor by the hind legs and "wheelbarrowing" them is actually really important to remember. As long as you have a firm grip on them as you scream for help it can give the dog(s) at the raw end of the deal a chance to escape.
As to having a course on what to do if you get attacked I don't see much business there. What would you do, have red zone dogs in a mixed group with people and dogs you were teaching? There is no way to simulate an attack safely. It actually would be much better if people all trained their dogs and kept an eye on what they were up to. In the case of a dog that bolts a door the owner should just lock the door. Our front and side storm doors have handles rather than knobs and all of our dogs know they can lean on them to open them. We even lock the side storm door if one of our males is in the yard by themselves since we don't leave them together unattended. None of our dogs has ever escaped our property. We make sure that is not possible.
We are more concerned about the dog over our back fence getting into our yard. She actually slammed into the fence so hard last week that she popped a panel out and could have gotten into our yard. I was out with Peeves and collecting eggs at the time. Nothing actually occurred that was all that bad. And that is because we don't leave our dogs unattended in the yard. The neighbor leaves this pit/pit mix unattended all the time. She has no toys, no shelter to relax in and therefore whenever she hears us in the yard she rams into it. I have spoken to the husband previously about this issue. This time I got the wife. I told her if the dog got into my yard again I would kill it to defend my own dogs and/or my chickens. I also said I felt sorry for her dog since it has no meaningful interactions with the family or gets to see anything outside the rubble filled backyard. I am still thinking about calling the SPCA about this last round. The only real fix for this is for the other dog to have a better life as a meaningful part of its family and a better set up in their back yard to prevent the conditions that led to the fenceline event last week. That would not be solved by defense training.
I don't think you need a dangerous dog to demonstrate (or even just discuss) some best practises for responding to an attack. Grabbing the hind legs, for example, is not something most people would think to do.
I'm going to suggest to our trainer that she consider addressing this topic in an upcoming class. Even just conversationally. We've got a few quite fragile folks in our current session. I think just hearing that they should drop the leash could be hugely beneficial.
How're the dogs doing today, Rose n Poos? And how are YOU doing?
Rose n Poos, OMG I was scared just reading this. Poor Nemo and Remo. I hope they aren't too traumatized by this experience.
I only have one dog to worry about on a leash - but I realize it's even scarier with multiple dogs.
One problem with sprays like pepper spray, if the wind is blowing towards you, the spray will hit and immoblize you and not your intended victim. In the heat of the moment you may not realize this. I often think an umbrella would help - opening it up makes you larger and scarier and it's a stick to hit with. But I never think to take one when walking.
I too would love to take a course - thinks like this need to be practiced so you have muscle memory to take over.
Thanks again for asking after us. We all seem to be pretty well recovered. We took a walk today and the boys behaved completely normally. The true test will be walking by that house again and/or the next time we get rushed. It could have been so much worse, but it wasn't.
Mister and Missus stepped up and covered the vet bill today. They also added a bag of Greenies Pill Pockets, some Rachel Ray treats, a gift card to a nice local restaurant, a Panera Cinnamon Crumb Coffee Cake, repeated apologies, promises that they'll make sure the door is latched in the future, that they'll check their back yard fence line (which borders another walk route we take) and more apologies. This was by Missus and Son. Mister stayed in the house.
In an odd way, I'm grateful for this experience. I've learned that I won't freeze in an attack, I will mostly keep my head and try to assess and act within the situation.
I see Catherine's point about not using live, particularly not red zone, dogs, but think discussions and practicing actions will be of value to many owners. Damaging sprays can be substituted by compressed air or something, waffle bats or something a bit more substantial can be swung at inanimate targets (like those boxing body thingys), even dropping leashes which is counter to most training. All these actions can be practiced so that they become familiar. Presence of mind can't really be taught, but if actions are familiar, they may think for you.
I'm thinking a riding crop might be an easy carry. I've hardly ridden, and never had one in my hands. Those of you familiar with them, would they have enough wallop?
ETA I know wallop is not their intended use on a horse!
I'm really happy those folks stepped up so immediately and wholeheartedly. Happy, too, that you got out for a walk today. Impressive!
I used to ride and still have my crops. I don't think they'd be very helpful, unfortunately. To get an effective whipping action, you'd need some distance. And even still, I don't think they'd deter a dog in attack mode. They're pretty flimsy.
I just read an article that said sprays can be effective, as long as they don't pose a risk to you (as pepper sprays could). They mention a fire extinguisher, but said even whipped cream would work??? Basically just anything that expands as it sprays is what you want to reach for. But I dunno..... Hard to know who to believe.
The only time I was attacked by a dog I was lucky that the dog had on a collar. I grabbed it and twisted it until he could not breathe. When he was almost unconscious, I released him. He staggered off to his own yard. It was a boxer, so quite a large dog.
How about making a sticky thread where we can keep up top a collection of strategies for responding to these kinds of incidents? I will start a new thread and others can add and if we all think it worthwhile to be able to find easily and offer suggestions/ask questions in then somebody can ask to sticky it. Look here: How to deal with loose aggresive dogs and variations thereof
BTW Johanna since you are not the tallest sort of a person in the world I'm impressed at your strength with that boxer.
Hi Rose, I'm checking on Neo in particular to see how his leg is healing, and how all three of you are doing emotionally from that ordeal. Hope you're okay.
That is terribly frightening. I hope that you report the attack, to protect the next person.
I carry a foghorn, the little mini one you get for boating.
I originally got these for camping in grizzly country but a few years ago we had an aggressive dog turn up our backyard
hackles raised at my husband (who was grilling) and it sent him packing- never to return.
They are extremely loud.
Thank god there was no serious physical injury. This scared me to read and I can’t imagine what it would be like to have a dog run up and attack your babies. It’s something I always fear happening. You were so calm and level headed to the attack dog owners. It makes me so happy that they went out of their way to attempt to make things right. I’m sure that had to do with the way you handled the situation. I would’ve given them a severe tongue lashing if I was in that situation. Which we know never gets you far.
I have a the ZAP 1 million volt taser. It has sharp points on the end you can use for defense even if you don’t discharge the electricity. It’s also super loud if you do discharge the electricity and might stop an attacking dog in its tracks with the sound alone. You could tuck it in your pocket or waistband on walks. As for pepper spray, they do make gel formulations that minimize your risk of blowback, but I’m not familiar with pepper spray.
Hugs to you all. So sorry you had to go through that!
Thanks all for your concern. We couldn't get out today for a walk, it being a Winnie the Pooh sort of day. Neo's healing, if he'd just stop licking at his wound, and they're both otherwise acting as if nothing had happened. I'm still ok too .
The real test will be how they react to dogs when we're walking, and particularly when we get near that house. I won't take them there for a few days, but the backyard fence is on one of our favorite walks. I remembered later that we've seen those dogs once or twice before in their backyard. They rushed the fence as most dogs will. They weren't friendly but I didn't see any escalating behavior either.
It was just such a fluke.
If I'm going to seriously start carrying a weapon of sorts, it'll have to be something built like a riding crop, which is why that came to mind. If it's not in my hand by the time I see an attack coming, it's of no use to me. If I have to manipulate the tool by pulling it from somewhere or even to hold a can to spray, it's of no use to me, There was no time to do anything except react. I'll need to snap that sucker into my grip and whale away, hoping I don't hit my own.
I think the sticky suggestion could be helpful for folks who maybe haven't thought about what they really might do or can do. Having a way to physically practice a lot of this would really help, but thinking about it and what you might be physically capable of will be a good start.
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