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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Annie had her annual vet visit this week.

Our vet is awesome. Not allowed to go in with Annie but got to talk and watch through the window.

After a thorough physical exam, the vet mentioned Annie's front feet have a slight turn inwards she says may be related to her chest conformation. Not something I had seen before but, looking at her, she is probably right. She said we will watch Annie for signs of arthritis as she ages due to that. This was particularly concerning to me since last time she was there (last spring) the vet noticed slight swelling in one of the front ankles.

I didn't think to ask the vet at the time, but are there any suggestions for osteoarthritis prevention I can do now before it begins? Supplements? I have arthritis myself (not osteo) so the idea of Annie in that kind of pain is rather horrifying..

She is not standing straight and balanced at all in this photo but best I could manage with my dog who was irritated with me for waking her up! I will try again later to get a better picture.
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I hope she doesn’t develop arthritis as a fellow sufferer.

Did the vet have any recommendations? I would imagine keeping her weight down so she’s slim with well rounded exercise to keep her muscles well toned would help.
 
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It is odd because I'm so used to Misha's feet turning slightly out. I know a narrow chest causes turn out so maybe a broad chest causes turn in. Maybe take a video of her walking toward you. I know the most important thing is how the feet face while walking. Sometimes they turn out or in at rest but are fine when moving.

I use green lipped mussel regularly. It is a natural source of glucosamine and also reduces inflammation. Really good stuff. Many people use turmeric as well. Look up golden paste.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Vet didn't mention anything about prevention. Said she was well muscled. I asked about her weight and she is a few pounds over ideal (have been having arguments about this with my mom who insists on feeding the dogs and doesn't bother measuring, so happy to have vet backup).

Trixie's feet are easty westy. Had never even considered inwards feet as a possibility. And yes, vet said possibly partially due to a broader than usual chest for a poodle.

Good idea on the video! That's easier to do than getting her to pose.
 

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Diego takes doggie dailies advanced hip and joint. I don’t know if it would prevent arthritis, but I don’t think it would hurt to start a supplement like this one. Starla loved them too.
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Keeping her lean and well muscled is a good start. You can also start her on a joint supplement. A canine sports medicine vet I know recommends that most dogs be started on one at around three or four years old, whether they are a sport dog or not. I'm using Glycoflex 3 VETRISCIENCE GlycoFlex Stage III Senior Joint Support Dog Tablets, 120 count - Chewy.com for my nine year old GSD, and Nutrivet Hip and Joint regular strength NUTRI-VET Hip & Joint Regular Strength Dog Chewables, 120 count - Chewy.com for my nearly seven year old APBT.
 

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My Pia has a severe ankle tip, I was told to keep her fit. I also keep the bottom of all dogs feet shaved even the chi mix to ward off arthritis and keep the legs toned
 

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In terms of supplements, my recommendation would be Fera Pet Organics, if you're in Canada, you can order directly off their website, but everywhere else can be ordered off Amazon. This is it: Hip + Joint Support for Dogs - Fera Pet Organics. In addition, green lipped mussels are also good for that. There are beds that are supposed to protect bones, joints, muscles etc.. I think they're called orthopedic beds. That's what I can think of off the top of my head. Your vet will probably have suggestions. Also, there are massages that integrative/holistic vets sometimes do.
 

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This is why people are warned to buy from a reputable breeder. Two of my rescues had toes turning in and it was obviously from a problem in the shoulder area. I did not keep them long enough to observe later problems.

Getting enough bone builders should help. By this I mean raw meaty bones. Or, at least raw bones as a chew toy. You can also add some vitamin C (Thompson's buffered crystals) as it aids in reducing inflammation as well as bone building.
 

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This is why people are warned to buy from a reputable breeder. Two of my rescues had toes turning in and it was obviously from a problem in the shoulder area. I did not keep them long enough to observe later problems.
Every dog has flaws. Even ones from good breeders.
 

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This is why people are warned to buy from a reputable breeder. Two of my rescues had toes turning in and it was obviously from a problem in the shoulder area. I did not keep them long enough to observe later problems.

Getting enough bone builders should help. By this I mean raw meaty bones. Or, at least raw bones as a chew toy. You can also add some vitamin C (Thompson's buffered crystals) as it aids in reducing inflammation as well as bone building.
This sounds like a premature assumption. I'm pretty sure Annie was from a good breeder. There is no evidence of an issue currently, just a potential concern. From what I understand breeders aim for feet that point straight. But dogs are often finished before they fill out, so my guess is that a dog with straight feet at 1 yr may turn in a little if their chest broadens as they mature.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This is why people are warned to buy from a reputable breeder. Two of my rescues had toes turning in and it was obviously from a problem in the shoulder area. I did not keep them long enough to observe later problems.

Getting enough bone builders should help. By this I mean raw meaty bones. Or, at least raw bones as a chew toy. You can also add some vitamin C (Thompson's buffered crystals) as it aids in reducing inflammation as well as bone building.

CKC champion parents, OFA testing done, breeder is a poodle club member :) Her littermate finished in less than 3 weekends, and her breeder at 1 year said Annie had a nicer face than her sister but her sister had a better structure, and Annie was likely showable. She did fill out a lot from 1 year to now. Not every dog in a conformation-bred litter will have perfect conformation, that's why not all of them are show quality. A good breeder is not a guarantee of no issues, just a better chance, but if some minor confirmation issues are the worst problems I have, I will be a very happy poodle owner!

Currently she gets meal replacement bones or beef trachea 1-2x per week for the tooth cleaning benefits.

What an observant vet! I’m glad Annie’s in such good hands.
She is fantastic. I drive 2 hrs to see her and it's more than worth it.


I played with Annie a bit outside this afternoon and will try to figure out how to upload or share a video.
 

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I played with Annie a bit outside this afternoon and will try to figure out how to upload or share a video.
Vimeo is super fast and easy. Upload there and then you can copy and paste the link into PF.
 

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Currently she gets meal replacement bones or beef trachea 1-2x per week for the tooth cleaning benefits.

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I played with Annie a bit outside this afternoon and will try to figure out how to upload or share a video.
I would offer a word of caution about tracheas. It's possible that having them often can raise a dog's thyroid levels, due to the fact that most beef tracheas don't have the thyroid gland removed before drying. Got Gullet?

I use YouTube for videos. Just upload it, and then copy and paste the link code into your post here.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I would offer a word of caution about tracheas. It's possible that having them often can raise a dog's thyroid levels, due to the fact that most beef tracheas don't have the thyroid gland removed before drying. Got Gullet?

I use YouTube for videos. Just upload it, and then copy and paste the link code into your post here.
Good point about tracheas. The trachea i feed is raw with the thyroid gland removed. A bigger source of concern is the turkey necks I also occasionally feed which likely do include the thyroid gland. I do my best to rotate so she isn't eating a neck-part more than once a month or so. Beef knee caps, beef trachea, beef brisket, turkey wing, turkey neck - whatever I can get at the local raw store that is chicken and duck free :)
 

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Watching her trot at 41-42 sec, it looks like she curls her front feet in, but I don't see that it goes up towards her shoulders.

Mia gets green lipped mussels and Glycoflex 3 (another glucosamine & chondroitin chew already mentioned above). It's overkill. She prefers the GLM, which I serve with fish oil since it's a powder. The small jar lasts over 1 month (still counting), while the large jar lasts about 10 weeks.
 

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And - here are videos of her walking/running. It looks like she does curve her front feet in a bit while trotting if you watch at half speed.



Thoughts?

(hard to believe we had 3" of snow this morning!)
I agree I can see some turn in while walking, though all dogs will angle legs inward towards a single track as they walk so it may not be as much as it appears. But I am seeing inward turning from the pastern. I would like to see her at an athletic weight. I wonder if slimming her down would also slim down her chest enough to impact it. I agree she does look on the bulky side right now. I prefer dogs at athletic weight so my feelings may be a bit overkill but I do think you are right that your mom is over feeding. Taking weight off will certainly lessen the strain on her joints. I do not think it is a big concern, as her structure is generally very nice and athletic. It is super common for dogs to have some turn in or turn out.

I don't know your relationship with her breeder, but personally I might ask what the breeder thinks. She may have seen this exact turn in before and know if it caused any issues. And she may appreciate knowing that she may need to evaluate her dogs' pasterns carefully.
 
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