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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Oh grrrrrrrr...:argh:just when I thought I made the perfect home cooked diet, measured/weighed everything meticulously, used a calculator, weighed after cooking, after dumping the cooking juices, used nothing but the best ingredients, followed the advice of that Dog Aware website that one of our home made diet gurus here, Fjm uses, DIARRHEA!:poop: Diarrhea one time, constipated the next. I tried so hard but I'm going back to commercial. I hate the idea, the processing, the crap but they always have good poops with that and seem to feel good. Oh, this is so exasperating! What could I have done wrong? I tried this way and that and it's just not working. Back when I fed raw with bones, it was okay for the most part but not really for Maurice. It was inconsistent with their bm's. I guess I don't know what I'm doing even though I've studied this stuff till I'm blue in the face...for well over a year.
 

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Poor pups :( There is nothing wrong with feeding a commercial food, so don't feel bad. Most dogs stay healthier on a kibble with grains than on anything else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Awwww...thanks MF. I'll do anything that makes them feel better without this terribly uncomfortable digestion trouble. Poor babies.
 
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Aww sorry. Well you must do what works best for you. We feed commercial food , it works well for us. My little cairn has some tummy issues now and then and will go off her food for a day, have abnormal bm then the next day fine again. I am looking at a food that has only 6% fat, so I am going to wean her to that and see if that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the encouragement. It goes against my grain. (haha...grain. Get it?):act-up: Anyhow, I'm going to try my best. Thank you. :angel:
 
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I changed Poppy from grain free to Purina Pro Plan Sport in January and it is quite amazing. I picked Purina because we fed it from 1954 to 2001 with great success.

Poppy did a hard transition by spitting out the mix of old and new food and eating only the Purina. After a couple of days of that I quit mixing in the old food. No tummy upsets or any issues. Her poops are way less smelly than before, smaller and more compact and never soft or runny.

Poppy has been an indifferent eater in the past, not picky, just not excited either. Now she LOVES her food and tries to break onto the bag when I get new one.

I do feed the chicken version because she is used to chicken but they make lamb and a nice salmon version for sensitive skin and stomach.

Poppy has always had a very nice coat, but it is amazing...so sleek and very shiny. One never thinks of poodle coat as shiny but hers is and we get lots of compliments on it. Another nice side effect is the cost of the food is much much less that what I paid for years on the old grain free stuff. We are never going back. She is healthy and loves it so I am happy too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I looked at the ingredients in that and was skeptical about the meat content. Of course, they don't say how much is meat. But it looks like an awful lot of grain. Do you think it is? They never say how much of anything they put in. I'd like to see taurine and selenium and chromium.

Didn't you use Victor before? I have used that and just ordered some more because it worked pretty well.

Of course, if your Poppy is doing well on it and likes it, what more can you ask for? I think that her coat is shiny and she has good energy, feels good, it must be good, right? I think part of my problem is I read too damn much. LOL. I over think EVERYTHING. Big problem. I think MF told me once that I have an over-active imagination. No, that wasn't it. I had an over-active brain. hahahaha. It's just jumping around like popcorn. :argh:


Here's the Proplan ingredients:


Chicken, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), poultry by-product meal (source of glucosamine), whole grain corn, corn germ meal, fish meal (source of glucosamine), animal digest, fish oil, dried egg product, salt, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, calcium phosphate, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), and sodium selenite

And here is the Victor ingredients in the formula I have gotten before:

What do you think? Did Poppy do well on this? Or did you use another formula? It was you, wasn't it who used Victor? Gosh, I could be getting someone mixed up with you. hmmmm. No, I'm sure it was you. Anyhow, what did you think of this?

INGREDIENTS:


Beef Meal, Grain Sorghum, Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Pork Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal (source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Whole Grain Millet, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Flax Seed (source of Omega 3 Fatty Acid), Feeding Oat Meal, Yeast Culture, Natural Chicken Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Dried Kelp, Salt, Montmorillonite, Tomato Pomace (source of Lycopene), Dried Carrot, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Lecithin, Fructooligosaccharide, Folic Acid, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract.
 

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I am feeding Molly Victor's too! I 'm giving her the 'Senior Healthy Weight' formula. She eats it but doesn't seem to be overjoyed with it LOL (it's a beef based kibble and beef is not one of her favs unless it is raw meat! LOL!)

I also just got a bag of 'Nature's Logic Duck & Salmon' which is all natural, no synthetic vitamins or supplements...... 100% natural and grain inclusive without using corn, wheat. soy, rice, etc!

She still gets 3-4 ounces of raw meat 3-4 times a week and I rotate those meals with canned foods too.
Still keeping lots of variety in her diet and I am happy with my choices so far! :^)
 
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If they are doing well on a good commercial food and you can afford it, I would stick to that and not stress about it. I absolutely understand the urge to control all the ingredients, especially after the recall scandals in the US, but not if it means uncomfortable tummies. We had weeks and weeks of diarrhoea last year - both the vet and I guessed it was a bug because of the pattern, but extensive testing found nothing. Mine were on Sensitive Diet canned for a month or two until eventually it sorted itself out.

If you still want to cook for them, perhaps you could make treats? I use the tiny 1 cal chicken treats I make as sprinkles on supper when I am feeling especially loving!
 
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(((HUGS)))) no one wants to deal with diarrhea and dogs feeling poorly due to diet. I hope you find a resolution you're happy with quickly.
 
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I looked at the ingredients in that and was skeptical about the meat content. Of course, they don't say how much is meat. But it looks like an awful lot of grain. Do you think it is? They never say how much of anything they put in. I'd like to see taurine and selenium and chromium.

Didn't you use Victor before? I have used that and just ordered some more because it worked pretty well.

Of course, if your Poppy is doing well on it and likes it, what more can you ask for? I think that her coat is shiny and she has good energy, feels good, it must be good, right? I think part of my problem is I read too damn much. LOL. I over think EVERYTHING. Big problem. I think MF told me once that I have an over-active imagination. No, that wasn't it. I had an over-active brain. hahahaha. It's just jumping around like popcorn. :argh:


Here's the Proplan ingredients:


Chicken, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), poultry by-product meal (source of glucosamine), whole grain corn, corn germ meal, fish meal (source of glucosamine), animal digest, fish oil, dried egg product, salt, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, calcium phosphate, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), and sodium selenite

And here is the Victor ingredients in the formula I have gotten before:

What do you think? Did Poppy do well on this? Or did you use another formula? It was you, wasn't it who used Victor? Gosh, I could be getting someone mixed up with you. hmmmm. No, I'm sure it was you. Anyhow, what did you think of this?

INGREDIENTS:


Beef Meal, Grain Sorghum, Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Pork Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal (source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Whole Grain Millet, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Flax Seed (source of Omega 3 Fatty Acid), Feeding Oat Meal, Yeast Culture, Natural Chicken Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Dried Kelp, Salt, Montmorillonite, Tomato Pomace (source of Lycopene), Dried Carrot, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Lecithin, Fructooligosaccharide, Folic Acid, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract.
I did feed Poppy Victor for a couple of months after we ran out of EVO which was no longer being made. I had fed EVO to Iris for 14 yrs and to Poppy for about 1 1/2 yrs. Her poops were often softish on Victor and really stinky.

Then I learned about the whole grain free debacle and did some research....a LOT of research. Ran across some info on lab breeders who were experiencing some very serious infertility issues....in big numbers with dogs being fed Victor and with the dogs suddenly having extremely high levels of copper in their blood. That turned me off of Victor. Also, Victor does not have Certified Veterinary Nutritionists doing their food formulas, they do not do any long term feeding trials and they do not follow WSAVA guidelines when manufacturing their foods.

I researched the whole DCM issue for many weeks. Discovered that the cardiologists and were recommending foods made by companies which followed WSAVA guidelines, who employed, FULL TIME Certified Veterinary Nutritionists to formulate their foods. Purina was one of those 5 companies. Since I fed Purina from 1954 to 2001 and my dogs were always healthy and lived a long time I felt comfortable going back to Purina. Also, many breeders use Purina and have great results for their dogs and that's their passion as well as their livelyhood.

I also learned from reading papers written by the nutritionists from Tufts University, Dr. Lisa Freeman, about the DCM issue that we should not rely on the Ingredients as much as we should rely on the "nutritients" in the food, and how the various components supply those nutrients. For example, so many of us are told that corn is bad, however, in reality corn, when properly ground and processed properly provides the body with some very essential amino acids as well as other nutrients which are beneficial to a healthy diet. One of those amino acids are necessary for the dog's body to be able to manufacture taurine.

So corn is not junk or filler if it is processed correctly and used in conjunction with other essential nutrients. I have certainly learned a lot.

The companies who put the correct science, testing and research into their food formulas do NOT have any cases of nutritional DCM associated with feeding their foods.

I, personally, will never again fall for fancy marketing gimicks when selecting Poppy's food and will stay with a company which has spent 85 plus years developing healthy pet food formulas. It is so sad that the majority of manufacturers do not put their money into proper research and into preparing foods which do not cause so much damage and heartbreak.

I am comfortable with my decision to feed Poppy her Pro Plan. She loves it and I have had other poodle people approach me and ask me what I feed because her coat is so shiny, thick and pretty....she just gleams. No more wads of eye boogies, no farty girl, no stinky ears, no dry skin, firm poops 2 x a day.....works for me! Another really nice benefit is that this Pro Plan food does not cost an arm and a leg to feed either.

So that's the deal for me and Poppy....Miss Shiny Pants
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Oh no! And I just ordered off Amazon a 15 lb bag of Victor. I had used it recently...two bags worth and they did all right. Firm poo and I didn't notice anything wrong. Of course, I also fed other things too...sometimes the Nature's Variety Instinct frozen raw, sometimes Instinct kibble, Merrick canned...the formulas that say 96% protein from beef or chicken or whatever meat. So mostly meat. Shoot. Well, I'll perhaps try some Proplan then. It just doesn't look like the ingredients are that great. But if your dog does well, then there may be something I'm not seeing. I never thought corn was the devil. It's only when it makes up a huge percentage of the food...as a filler and there's not enough meat. That always seems to be the problem and what I think is at the bottom of this DCM problem. I think too, that some of the marketing gimmicks get really out of hand...like gluten. It's made out to be some horrible thing and it's not....not for the vast majority unless a person has celiac disease. Crazy stuff. I wish they'd say how much of the protein is from meat like that Merrick canned...some of it does....some formulas.

Well...thanks for all your input.
 

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I like Victor and so do my dogs. Boxers tend to have sensitive stomach s and loose stool, with the Victor he does well. I also used Royal cain, which also is good but its so expensive for big dogs! I recently changed my cairn over to pro plan and while she likes it however her poo is huge and flies right out of her and she has been scooting. So we are transitioning once again. This time to Solid Gold. I am trying this as she has been having some tummy issues and I am thinking she needs low fat. The bag I have is 6% fat as opposed to 16% with Purina. I have just finished the tradition with the purina so I am going to finish it before starting again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Mufar, that is good to know. I guess some dogs do better on some foods that others don't. I am still about as insecure as they come where commercial food comes in. It's interesting to read what everyone feeds and how their individual dogs do on their diets.
 

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Like most of us who watch what our pups closely, I too have been down a similar road. It is very frustrating to say the least. I like to see my spoo's enjoy their meals and not have issues. For the last few months, after one of them was diagnosed with pancreatitis they have been on a diet. I was really at a loss as to what to feed while also wanting their diet to have good balance. Eventually I settled on reducing the fat content by using a different protein (ground turkey, 7% fat) and Blue Buffalo kibble. I reasoned that the kibble would supply them with the nutrients they need and the home cooked ground turkey would keep them interested. Well, so far they are eating great, losing weight and their stool is very consistent. I'm really not sure if what I'm feeding achieves a good diet, but all I can go on are how they have been acting. My sweet little Belle has lost a few pounds and seems much more energetic and looks great at 49 pounds. Princess is getting there but still probably needs to lose a few more pounds (55). I read through the ingredients in Blue Buffalo several times and am satisfied that basic requirements are being met. I did try Purina Pro Plan sensitive stomach and it seemed a decent food but the stomach issues didn't abate so I returned to Blue. This may have been more due to not transitioning very well but I'm not sure. For me ,I think that some of the stomach upset was created by my experimentation and desire to find something that they would eat and enjoy consistently. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Blue is the best, just one that is thankfully working for my girls.
 

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Yes, I agree with that article. Just like us, when we switch to a totally different diet. I recently went to Ecuador and switched to a mostly raw diet. My digestive system went into an uproar for a few days. By now I am feeling so much better!

Poodlebeguiled, I am so puzzled as to why you switched from a raw diet? My Spoo has never done better than he has on raw. And it is so easy to adjust for things like loose stools, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Kontiki, I have toy poodles. Maurice is 4.5 lbs, Matisse, 8.5 give or take. Matisse did all right but was sort of inconsistent. Maurice I just couldn't seem to regulate. He went from constipation to diarrhea/colitis. He struggled a good deal of the time. It is very hard to feed 10% bone to a tiny dog at each meal and get it right. Balance over time clearly did not work for these guys. I was hell bent on feeding bones for their teeth, not egg shell or bone meal. But of course, 10% bone meant a very small piece, which was choking size but they seemed to be careful and did all right. But they couldn't spend much time chewing on such a small piece anyhow, so I don't know how much good it did their teeth. I could have probably kept feeding Matisse that way but then poor Maurice would be sad to not get the tastier stuff. However, there came a time where I was having some huge life changes and some trauma going on in my life and was preparing to sell my house, pack up and move. It was such a busy time that I gave up on all the extra work of feeding home prepared diets...cooked or raw.

I probably didn't give it enough time with these guys on this recent cooked diet. I might try mixing a little in their kibble and see how it goes. But they do pretty well on Victor. I like all the meat that's in it. They list all the nutrients and then some that I like to see. The only trouble is, they seem to be a little too firm so I'm adding a tsp or two of pumpkin which helps. And I usually add in a little Merrick canned, yesterday, some sardines, another time, eggs...stuff like that. But I have some of my home made in the freezer so I think I'll try just adding a little to their kibble, hoping I don't throw the balances off. Just a little I guess.

Thanks everyone for your input, what you do with your dogs...all good to know.

VQ...thanks for that explanation of peristaltic action of the intestines. It's more of a wave like action than a steady pushing of the contents. I have been in the medical field but didn't know that about the intestines developing a memory...never heard that. But if that's the case, that explains it.
 
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