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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My puppy came home yesterday - the breeder told me I needed to "massage his bottom canines out" to "correct the direction" of his teeth.
I became suspicious of course and googled and discovered that this condition was base narrow canines and I started asking her questions. I asked if there was any trauma, she said no there wasn't but I can see two little holes in his gums.

She was very defensive about it and as there had already been dramas previously, at this point I just wanted my puppy and to get out of there.

I don't think "massaging them out" is going to have any effect on these teeth but I am desperately looking for a bit of hope. She said if I massage them there will be no problem, this is basically placing all the responsibility on me rather than her as the breeder?

I need some positive stories otherwise I am staring down the barrell of a full priced puppy, no health guarantee or warranty, and expensive orthodontics within a week of getting this little guy home.

I feel sick, but anytime I tried to ask questions she just said "if you don't want the puppy I will give you your deposit back."

I only got him yesterday, I will book a vet appointment for early next week.
 

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I have no experience with this condition but there was a thread recently about it. Try doing a search on the forum.
 

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I have a friend who successfully performed this type of massage and her young husky didn't end up requiring surgery or orthodontics. It was done by teaching her husky to gently tug a tennis ball.

She did this under the guidance of a specialist, which is what I would recommend you do, too. Pricy upfront but may prevent much larger costs down the road.

As for the breeder....ultimately you decided to proceed despite your misgivings, so I'd do my best to let that anger go and focus on my puppy. It sounds like you're already very much bonded with him, so let's celebrate that! Would love to know his name and see some photos when you feel like sharing.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I have a friend who successfully performed this type of massage and her young husky didn't end up requiring surgery or orthodontics. It was done by teaching her husky to gently tug a tennis ball.

She did this under the guidance of a specialist, which is what I would recommend you do, too. Pricy upfront but may prevent much larger costs down the road.

As for the breeder....ultimately you decided to proceed despite your misgivings, so I'd do my best to let that anger go and focus on my puppy. It sounds like you're already very much bonded with him, so let's celebrate that! Would love to know his name and see some photos when you feel like sharing.
Unfortunately I feel the breeder was deliberately deceptive and downplayed it. I have all the emails in which she minimised the extent of the issue knowing full well that I am not a vet nor experienced in canine dental issues. She sold me a puppy with upper palate trauma and a malocclusion essentially and in emails she actually denied this. It is only since bringing my puppy home, looking at his mouth properly and starting to research that I can now take in the full weight of the situation.

What kind of ANKC breeder sends a puppy home with an already a sore mouth, telling the owner to just push on deciduous teeth?
 

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What a terrible situation. I'm sorry. :( Are you considering returning the puppy?

I don't think my friend was advised that her husky puppy had dental issues either. There are a lot of unscrupulous folks out there.
 

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Hi,

First, here's a link I got doing a site search for "base+narrow" threads


Second. I'm assuming the ANKC is the official purebred registry of Australia and if so, you might contact them to ask if there's any information about the breeders standing with them or if they can suggest a good way to resolve this in the pup's best interest.
On further reading of the website, your proper contact would be the controlling body for the state/territory.


What variety is your pup and how old? Is the pup able to eat without seeming in pain?


Another thought...if you have a vet already chosen or established with, could you send them photos sooner than you can get in? This is not to skip the appointment but to give you a professional opinion on what might need to be done, so you can plan a bit?
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
What a terrible situation. I'm sorry. :( Are you considering returning the puppy?

I don't think my friend was advised that her husky puppy had dental issues either. There are a lot of unscrupulous folks out there.
I won't be returning the puppy, he is already part of our family, I could never do that.

Our puppy will be loved and well taken care of x
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Hi,

First, here's a link I got doing a site search for "base+narrow" threads


Second. I'm assuming the ANKC is the official purebred registry of Australia and if so, you might contact them to ask if there's any information about the breeders standing with them or if they can suggest a good way to resolve this in the pup's best interest.
On further reading of the website, your proper contact would be the controlling body for the state/territory.


What variety is your pup and how old? Is the pup able to eat without seeming in pain?
Thankyou x
He doesn't appear to be in pain however I have read they rarely if ever show pain with this? So I don't know that I can say he is not in pain.

He is very small, and I can feel his ribs. He is 3.4kg and 9 weeks old, he is a standard poodle.

He appears to have no problem wolfing down his food.

I have read that pushing on deciduous teeth is a terrible idea as it can displace the adult teeth more? I'm glad I haven't been zealous trying to do this.
 

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We'll be here to support you in any way we can.

Peggy also came to us malnourished, but quickly fattened up once we found the right food for her. I'm glad to hear your little guy isn't in too much pain to eat. You're right that dogs are wired to not show pain. That's why we all have to be canine detectives sometimes and spot the signs. Not eating can be a big one.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
We'll be here to support you in any way we can.

Peggy also came to us malnourished, but quickly fattened up once we found the right food for her. I'm glad to hear your little guy isn't in too much pain to eat. You're right that dogs are wired to not show pain. That's why we all have to be canine detectives sometimes and spot the signs. Not eating can be a big one.
Thankyou for your support x
I will update on future developments.

He's a little darling.
He has already learned sit and his name. He has been with us just 48 hours.
Toilet training is going to take a while though as he's not been used to going on grass.
 

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Mia (now 10 years old) had linguoverted canines as a puppy. It's a common condition in poodles because of the narrowness of the muzzle and even reputable breeders may not cover corrective costs (check your health guarantee). At the time the recommendation was to remove the puppy canines and use "ball therapy" to help the adult canines grow into proper position. Ball therapy turned out to be simply "play with balls" - balls are the right size to sit in the mouth and exert outward pressure on the canines. We didn't only play with balls, but I made sure we did play with balls, and her adult canines came in perfectly (they usually do).
 

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Zephyr also had one inverted canine as a puppy. His breeder told me my vet would probably want to pull the tooth but that I should not do that, to have him play with balls and to put outward pressure on the tooth. I did that and his adult teeth came in perfect. I think it is very common in poodle puppies to have one or both bottom canines inverted, and usually it is not a problem.
 

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I searched for some additional info on ball therapy as a first non-invasive treatment option and found quite a few positive recommendations from medical sites. I'm linking two for you:


 

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There doesn't appear to be, so that's hopefully a positive. My boy's are asleep so I can't do a comparison right now.
Based on the original pics, I'm thinking it's the indentations closest to the canines, but I'm not sure what I'm seeing in the area above?

469798
 

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There doesn't appear to be, so that's hopefully a positive. My boy's are asleep so I can't do a comparison right now.
Based on the original pics, I'm thinking it's the indentations closest to the canines, but I'm not sure what I'm seeing in the area above?

View attachment 469798
I'm pretty sure I see the indentations here. Thankfully they look mild. Hopefully the prognosis is good.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'm pretty sure I see the indentations here. Thankfully they look mild. Hopefully the prognosis is good.
Yes that is them.
I am hoping beyond hope that the baby teeth just fall out and we do ball therapy.

If he is 9 weeks old are his canines fully erupted or will they grow longer?
 

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Yes that is them.
I am hoping beyond hope that the baby teeth just fall out and we do ball therapy.

If he is 9 weeks old are his canines fully erupted or will they grow longer?
The puppy teeth usually start to fall out at around 12-14 weeks so the lower canines are still going to grow and continue to hit/puncture the roof of the mouth. I dealt with base narrow canines in one of my Standards. You can search and you will see I posted about it in response to other threads here. I was already aware of the issue, it is not uncommon in some lines with fairly refined headpieces. Also, my breeder disclosed to me that my girl, and a couple other pups in the litter, had the issue and we discussed so I knew all about it before I brought my girl home. I monitored regularly and when the canines poked the roof of her mouth I had my regular vet pull them. When the adult lower canines came in, they were still inside so I saw a board-certified dentist at my specialty practice. They felt my pup's particular issue was mild enough that ball therapy as well as exerting outward pressure on them several times a day would encourage them to move into correct placement, which is what our outcome was. She wound up with a perfect bite and placement. I would encourage you to consult a vet dentist now for a second opinion to make sure you do everything you can to encourage correct placement without possible need for surgery later on. Sometimes early intervention is all that is needed. Also to make sure the lower teeth don't continue to further puncture the roof of the mouth.
 
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