[blueskies]

I'm going to see a puppy this week sometime. She is ready to go, I believe, and is the last female left of her litter. I'm a little concerned because I feel like I don't know if I'll get the best pup for me if I'm just getting the last female available. The breeder does seem like one of the better ones here in Australia, though. She does Orivet testing, does puppy culture and Volhard temperament testing. The dam is said to be gentle and to have come from a line of dogs used for service and therapy dogs.

I'm also talking with another breeder (who again seems to be one of the better breeders in this country) who does temperament testing and some of her dogs have gone on to be service dogs as well as other working dogs (there's even a cadaver dog in there) but the litter won't be born until October.

Whichever dog I get will be primarily a companion and also support dog as I have a chronic illness. Hence why it's even more important to me that I get the dog with the right temperament for me. I know some basics of clicker training (and did some with my last dog), and helped with behavior modification for dogs not ready for adoption at a shelter in the states while I lived there. So I have skills to train advanced behaviors once we get past the important basics.

I did look at a 9 month old pup of a different breed last week and he was a return to a breeder. He was bossy, growly, and nippy and I realized that although I did work with some dogs needing retraining in the past, I really need and want the right dog with a calm, sweet temperament who I can work with early on to get the best out of the pup.

I feel rushed for a time a bit, because the puppy will be ready to go so soon (this week). I'm also trying to figure out finances to afford to buy her. Yet I'm not sure I want to wait until December for my next possibility of getting the right pup.

Anyway the point of this thread: I've been trying to register for poodle databases online to look up possible health scores, and research breeders in the pups pedigree. The breeder has been good in giving me copies of the pedigrees for both parents. But it's proving hard to find anything and it's taking time for my registrations to go through.

Would anyone know of these breeders and their reputations? They are all in North America.

The sire of the specific pup I'm looking at is from Cantope. He was imported to Australia so he lives with the breeder in Australia. In his line include dogs from Peakerwood? Possibly a breeder called Mithril? (Mithril is in two of the dogs in the sire's dam's line). Then there's more Cantopes and a Copper Hershey.

There's also (I'm just going to put the whole names as I'm not sure which part is the breeders) a Allens Willow Lanes Casino Royale, a Sunset Acres KC Chief, and Allen's Cocoa Moe. And a He's my Parti-Time Man, a couple of Kit-Sue's, and Mic-Ann's.


The dam of the pup includes dogs named (again, I'm sorry I can't tell which part of the names are the breeders) Prodigy Phabulus Country Pride, a few Australian and NZ breeders, Sandyoaks River of Change, Kokopeli's Reggae Parti, Joselyn Parti n Hard, R Chance to Parti, Ohelo Berry Muffin, and Taylor's April Girl.

I've only mentioned N.American names because I'm not sure if it's okay for people to know which breeder I'm talking about from Australia. Even though I'm not saying any bad things!

In terms of in-breeding or line-breeding -- I can't see any which is great because I looked at another spoo pup last week and he had half siblings what seems like everywhere in his pedigree (3 generations). Both his grandfathers are the same dog, and on his sire's side both his great-grandmothers are the same dog (technically making three of his four great-grandmothers the same dog). SO this current pup's pedigree is way more reassuring to me.


So -- can anyone tell me anything about the reputations of these breeders? Temperament/health. Obviously I'm not buying from them, but seeing as I can't look up their health results (if they're even online), I'm hoping someone might know of some of them.

Thank you so much!

 

[blueskies]

The breeder of the current pup I'm looking at is also making sure the pup gets a tubal ligation tomorrow instead of spay, just for me (the litter is going in tomorrow to get desexed), even though I told them I'm not sure yet if I will be taking the puppy. But they know I want to not spay my new dog until later on in the pups life. So just in case, they're getting that done for me instead of spaying (there's a few breeders here in Australia who insist on desexing their pups before they go home because they're so very against the possibility of a buyer breeding designer dogs).

 

[Skylar]

How did this puppy score on the Volhard temperament testing? That should help you determine if this is the right dog for you.

 

[Mufar42]

Personally I think I would wait until I am sure I found the right dog. Especially if $ is a slight problem at the moment. You will ant to be in a position to have the pup groomed every 4 weeks (unless you will be doing it) and to have all its vaccinations. I am also with the mind that later desexing , spay or neuter is best for the dog. But that is me. I tend to find the 1st year an expensive year.

 

[Moni]

Desexing of 8 weeks old puppies? I am sorry I hope I read this wrong - but that is so full of insanely horrid health consequences it reaches into irresponsible. A myriad of cancers, bad bone growth and all kinds of other problems are in those pup's future. If they cannot trust people or do not bother doing the research into potential owners backgrounds maybe they shouldn't take their lack of trust out on those poor babies?

 

[blueskies]

How did this puppy score on the Volhard temperament testing? That should help you determine if this is the right dog for you.

Just heard back from the breeder, said “typical poodle temperament she scored mid range for all testing”

 

[blueskies]

@mufar42 @moni
I don’t agree with early desexing either. It seems the breeders who seem to be most upfront about health testing here (that I can find) also desex their pups before letting them go. At least they are open to an alternative procedure that allows their hormones to still function — is what I’m telling myself.

The breeder whose pups are due around October lets them go with a legally binding contract to have them desexed by 6 months, so that’s an improvement but I would still want to do tubal ligation/vasectomy instead in that case.

 

[JudyD]

Desexing of 8 weeks old puppies? I am sorry I hope I read this wrong - but that is so full of insanely horrid health consequences it reaches into irresponsible. A myriad of cancers, bad bone growth and all kinds of other problems are in those pup's future.

A tubal ligation wouldn't involve removing the ovaries, just cutting and tying the fallopian tubes so that eggs and sperm can't reach each other. It wouldn't have the potential for long-term negative consequences that a spay does.

 

[Mysticrealm]

A tubal ligation wouldn't involve removing the ovaries, just cutting and tying the fallopian tubes so that eggs and sperm can't reach each other. It wouldn't have the potential for long-term negative consequences that a spay does.

I think she means that the breeder desexing all her puppies at 8 weeks old is terrible. Great that she would do the tubal ligation for this one puppy, but spaying all her 8 week old puppies is definitely not a breeder I would go to personally.

 

[Moni]

A tubal ligation wouldn't involve removing the ovaries, just cutting and tying the fallopian tubes so that eggs and sperm can't reach each other. It wouldn't have the potential for long-term negative consequences that a spay does.

JudyD reread the original post - the one pup she is considering is having the tubal ligation - the others in the litter are being neutered and spayed.

 

[Raindrops]

I wouldn't be looking at a breeder that was okay with desexing 8 week old dogs. There's so much research on why it's bad, so to me it says something about the breeder not putting the health of the dogs first, and I wouldn't want to support that. That's something I've seen in the U.S. from doodle breeders.

 

[JudyD]

JudyD reread the original post - the one pup she is considering is having the tubal ligation - the others in the litter are being neutered and spayed.

I'm not usually quite so dense--those of you who pointed out that the rest of the litter will be spayed or neutered are certainly right. It is bad practice, unhealthy for those poor pups.

Still, my comment might give other readers info about a different approach to preventing pregnancy without compromising their dog's health. I asked the breeder of my male and my vet about a vasectomy instead of a castration. Both were okay with it, but I opted for the neuter when Blue was a year old for behavioral reasons.

 

[blueskies]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for all your comments! Just an update - I had pretty much decided against the puppy but did go to meet her for a few reasons:
- just in case she turned out to somehow be the perfect dog
- to meet the breeder and get more insight into her and how she works
- to meet more standard poodles as I haven’t spent much time with the breed and believe it will helpful to figure out what I’m looking for
- to meet the pup and find out more about what I’m looking for

She woukdnt have been a good fit anyway — especially as I’m now looking for a service dog candidate. She wasn’t confident, took quite a while to come near, and was a bit skittish. She could easily be worked on with confidence (I used to work with unadoptable shy dogs at a shelter, with behavior modification). But for my potential service dog, it’s a lot to risk. I learned some things about the lack of socialization that people that the pups from this litter have access to. So even though I met other pups in the litter, too, I probably would avoid this breeder. And I don’t want to have any type of early sterilization done to my dog.

As a potential service dog in the state I’m in, from what I can see a dog has to be desexed before they can become a service dog in training. So I would probably get the dog done (vascectomy or the alternative to spaying) at 6 months or any time after that that she/he has all her basic obedience down and ready to go all the places only service dogs are allowed. Then wait til 18 months to get the dog properly desexed... I’ll need to double check the laws about what type of sterilization is required. It might be better to get a female so it’s less likely to cause issues (from random people or businesses, visually) in public.

 

[Countryboy]

My Tonka is Cantope Tonka Picard. For the last ten years I've known most of the Cantope dogs... and would probably know the 'Cantope sires' that you speak of.

 

[blueskies]

My Tonka is Cantope Tonka Picard. For the last ten years I've known most of the Cantope dogs... and would probably know the 'Cantope sires' that you speak of.

I decided not to go with this litter/breeder. But thank you!