[Buck]

Randy's breeder and I have become good friends and have kept in touch. For some reason I have had Randy on my mind lately, so I sent her an e-mail to see how things were going and just to reflect on all that happened.
She tells me that several weeks ago she got a 20 month old female back from the owner because she attacked a small dog while on vacation and felt like she couldn't be trusted and didn't want to deal with it. That was her second owner.
Now for the story on the first owner..
The female was sold at 10 weeks as show potential in a home that wanted to get into showing and said all the right things. Long story short at nine months old they called the breeder to say they wanted to sell her cause it was to much work. The breeder ended up getting her back in a mess, and later found out that they kept her in the back yard with a brussels griffon separate by a fence. So breeder gets her back keeps her for two months getting her socialized and healthy and finds her the home that now has given her back. So SAD....

She is spade, housebroken, crate-trained, good with children and big dogs. She does have a high prey drive. I am still getting more details.

I told her I would help try and find her the right home. She has been through alot and needs someone that has the time to spend with her and that won't give up on her.
This really blows my mind. I could never imagine returning a dog over something like that.
Well I was thinking about my home...................

 

[814]

If you are up for the challenge, it sounds like it could be a good thing for both of you.

 

[Olie]

Sounds extreme - maybe she just wasn't given enough time. This could be a good thing for all of you. If theres nothing holding you back, I say go for it.

 

[KPoos]

Just know that there is a reason this dog is not working out in families. If she's got a high prey drive it's likely that she's injuring small dogs because of that prey drive and she's going to be a liability and a challenge to mold into what you need as a pet. If you want her, go into it knowing that you have your work cut out for you and her prey drive is never going to get better. You can redirect it but she will always retain that instinct.

 

[Buck]

Just know that there is a reason this dog is not working out in families. If she's got a high prey drive it's likely that she's injuring small dogs because of that prey drive and she's going to be a liability and a challenge to mold into what you need as a pet. If you want her, go into it knowing that you have your work cut out for you and her prey drive is never going to get better. You can redirect it but she will always retain that instinct.

What would be the best way to redirect it? I know obedience training will be a must. I also want to talk to Drake ( dog trainer) to get his input. I know ya'll must think I am crazy but I have always known that I wanted another spoo, just wasn't thinking this soon and was thinking of a rescue/or being a foster home.

 

[KPoos]

This is likely the reason she's been rehomed. It's not easy to live with a dog with high prey drive. Here's one article I found. I'll look for others.
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/hidrive.html

 

[Olie]

For me as Suri has some prey drive, as some know she is a little older and was also a show dog.
I do crate my Poms when we are not home - all my dogs except her are crated anyway.
I only allow the playing with the poms to go for short periods and we are quick to redirecting. She does fine with them, but again I keep an eye on them when they are playing.
When we go the DP - she has gone after a smaller dog once, so we will need to work a little more on "come" and then the follow through, because her mind was set that day........but she didn't hurt the dog was just playing. IMO it's not much different then what you would already be doing you'll just be a little more aware.

 

[wishpoo]

Hmmmm ... There is a difference between "high drive" dogs and dogs that have aggressive behavior :rolffleyes:

Yes, one has to have in mind that many dogs that are actually "surrendered" really do have serious behavioral problems and not all are "fixable" , unfortunately : (

I do not know what to say , dear Buck, but you have one new dog added and you mentioned that your first spoo is somewhat "upset" about it :rolffleyes:

I would really hesitate to bring yet another spoo and especially not one with aggressive tendencies :rolffleyes:

But - only you can make that decision and I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide : ))

 

[KPoos]

Yes that's right I forgot about that. Right now the order is being established in your home. I highly recommend this man's website and this article in general.
http://leerburg.com/pdf/packstructure.pdf

 

[Olie]

Yes finding out if this was aggression and if in fact she is high drive for sure helps determine what you can handle. But some can over react and look for a reason.

In my case Suri was moved around to a couple places and was also being shown but because of structure flaws like gay tail, neck, and chest they were unsure to breed her or not....I was hesitant at first because they thought Suri was rowdy and needed a home that was going to have time to play and get some exercise...........I tell you other than some stomach problems she has had she is a perfect PET.

 

[814]

If she was in the back yard fence fighting with a small dog (burssels griffon) it may be a learned bad habit. You really need to find out more about her reaction to small dogs, how sever is it. If it is a learned behavior it may be very treatable, If it is truly prey drive in that she is thinking of hurting or killing small animails than you may have more work on your hands. It sounds like a behavioralist would be a good place to start and then classes. It also sounds like she hasn't had much in the way of formal training, but poodles are smart responsive dogs and with the right training, attention and follow through you may have a diamond in the rough.

 

[Buck]

You all put things in perspective and sometimes my heart and my head aren't on the same page so to speak. Reality is that Wishspoo/Kpoo you are right I have to get my pack issues resolved before i take on one that will definitely need most of my focus. It wouldn't be fair to Cooper or for Greta. I will be starting obedience training on the 9th with her and will also be working with Cooper getting his CGC Award certification.
As far as the other spoo, I will get all info I can. WE do believe it was a learned behavior and there was fence fighting being allowed in the backyard. As far as the second owner she was off leash when she grabbed the Bichon. I have a gut feeling gingersnap she is a diamond in the rough. I so wish I was ready but..........
Maybe someone here that is a dog savvy owner is. She is a gorgeous white spoo.
She will be staying with the breeder until the right home comes along. She lives in PA.

 

[Spencer]

Just know that there is a reason this dog is not working out in families. If she's got a high prey drive it's likely that she's injuring small dogs because of that prey drive and she's going to be a liability and a challenge to mold into what you need as a pet. If you want her, go into it knowing that you have your work cut out for you and her prey drive is never going to get better. You can redirect it but she will always retain that instinct.

My mother has greyhounds. That statement in itself should explain where I am going with this... the puppies (both over a year, but they'll always be known as thus) both have VERY high prey drives. Memphis has even lunged after a small dog while out with my parents, that's how strong his is... however, my mother was very good about taking him to his obedience classes, and one thing she MADE SURE he learned was "watch me". He does so beautifully. He can be mid bold and she can say "watch me", he'll stop quickly and look to see what fun thing she has for him or is going to do. I agree that it is hard work having a dog with a high prey drive, but there are ways around it. McKenzie has a high prey drive, but she is a copy-cat. She only starts after something once Memphis has. I.e. Perry. Mack LOVES him and will trot around after him when he is at my mom's (and Memphis is put away) like he is the coolest thing she has ever seen. Let Memphis out (and pick Perry up) and it is a different story. It really all depends on the dog.

What would be the best way to redirect it? I know obedience training will be a must. I also want to talk to Drake ( dog trainer) to get his input. I know ya'll must think I am crazy but I have always known that I wanted another spoo, just wasn't thinking this soon and was thinking of a rescue/or being a foster home.

My mom is, I would think, the best example of grief/etc. That is the best way I can word it, so I know it doesn't make much sense. We lost Maggie in August of 2008. My mom was heartbroken. Maggie was a wonderful part of our household and it was a huge loss when she passed away. My mother was depressed, and became OBSESSIVE about keeping Maggie's memory alive. I got several calls per day about what was going in Mag's scrap book of her life. Asking my opinion as to what silly story should be on what page with what picture. I'm telling you, obsessive.

Skip to a few months later... pieces of a giant puzzle just fell right in to place, and somehow, a great breeder had puppies for sale. My parents had talked about another dog for Moondoggy's sake (he was depressed and trying to starve himself to death), but didn't want to feel like they were replacing Maggie or moving on without grieving for her, so the decision then was no. Anyway, those puzzle pieces fit together perfectly, and my mom got the exact opposite of Maggie, who was a fawn, dainty girl... she brought home a black, big pawed boy. My mom was scared that she would still feel guilty, but after a few days, everyone around my mom could tell a huge difference in her. She was happy again. I stopped getting 20 calls a day about a scrapbook, and about which collar and doggy toy should go in Maggie's urn... instead, I got 20 calls about how lively and busy this puppy kept my mom.

I'm not saying that this is your same case. But I thought I would share an abridged version of our story. Don't rule her out just yet. Think on it. Maybe ask the breeder all about it, and see if the breeder has tested her personally with little dogs. Like someone said, it may be a learned habit... and annoying... kinda like Perry bark/howling at any siren. Annoying.

Admittedly, my mom brought home Memphis on a whim (didn't tell my dad!) and then a couple months later added Mack to the pack (didn't tell dad again, poor guy!) Moondoggy came out of his depression, and LOVES having the pups around... he has become a totally different dog, and is now outgoing and the alpha. Something he never was before.

Hopefully, even if she doesn't come to your home, she still finds a good one!

 

[Olie]

Great points Spencer - I must admit, I am one that once it's in my mind I am determined to make things work. This dog seems like it wasn't given the best chance, it doesnt sound like this is all on the dog IMO. I was not aware of other pack issues - but I agree this could also be a positive experience, I think with any dogs and decisions made there is always a chance at almost anything.

And the Watch Me command is a good one, I know Suri was trained on and I need to be better at using it.

 

[Harley_chik]

I would never, never bring a dog that I knew had issues w/ small dogs into my home. (Not even for a visit.) I would never put Bailey's life in danger like that, period. Harley has never shown any aggression towards Bailey and I still keep them separated when I'm gone.

I you didn't have a small dog, I would feel differently, but I truly think you'd be putting your Chi in danger. What if this dog's bad behavior rubbed off on your pup and they ganged up on the Chi? It's great that you feel for that other dog, but the ones that are already in your home should come first.

 

[KPoos]

And they can get in pack mentality where a dog that never had that desire gains it from it's pack members. You will get dogs that never ever thought to lunge or be aggressive with humans do just that in a pack with a leader that does. I think you are making the right decision for where you are at in your life right now and what's going on with your own dogs.