Another poodle !

The following information was authored by VetGen, who first established DNA testing for coat color.

"any breeding which produces both Brown or Cream, White, Apricot or red, has the potential to produce brown nosed cream, white, apricot or red. If the breeding does not have the potential to produce blacks, only cream, white, apricot, red and brown, all cream, white, apricot and red will have brown noses."
Brown nose is what you are all referring to as liver noses.

ChickyChat said:

The following information was authored by VetGen, who first established DNA testing for coat color.

"any breeding which produces both Brown or Cream, White, Apricot or red, has the potential to produce brown nosed cream, white, apricot or red. If the breeding does not have the potential to produce blacks, only cream, white, apricot, red and brown, all cream, white, apricot and red will have brown noses."
Brown nose is what you are all referring to as liver noses.

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But in Poodles there is NO red gene, none, zip nodda. What most breeders call "red" are dark Apricot which can have liver pigment. So what I am getting at is her dog is NOT red it is brown. But whatever.

SECRETO said:

Sorry honey, but you don't know it all. There isn't a liver color in Pit Bulls its called fawn. My Lotus is a red nose fawn and white Pit Bull. They may say the nose is liver in color (describing it) its called a red nose and the colors fawn.

These pics show Malibu (on left) which is Blue fawn Pit Bull, Cherry (middle) which is a red and white Amstaff, and Lotus (right) red nose fawn and white Pit Bull.

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Sorry honey, but any dog with a brown or red or whatever color you want to call nose it is a liver pigmented dog. Dogs come in two main colors black and brown (liver) and that is determined by nose and eye color, if your dog has a black nose it is a black dog, if it has a brown nose it is a brown dog. If it has a blue nose it is a dilute of black, if it has a flesh colored or pink tint to it, it is a dilute of brown. Lots of colors can have either black or brown pigment it just depends on the modifiers.

I never said I new it all but I when I make a statement or correct someone I sure as hell know what I'm talking about.

I said she can call the dog whatever color she wants to, it just does not make it true.

Purple Poodle said:

Sorry honey, but any dog with a brown or red or whatever color you want to call nose it is a liver pigmented dog. Dogs come in two main colors black and brown (liver) and that is determined by nose and eye color, if your dog has a black nose it is a black dog, if it has a brown nose it is a brown dog. If it has a blue nose it is a dilute of black, if it has a flesh colored or pink tint to it, it is a dilute of brown. Lots of colors can have either black or brown pigment it just depends on the modifiers.
I never said I new it all but I when I make a statement or correct someone I sure as hell know what I'm talking about.

I said she can call the dog whatever color she wants to, it just does not make it true.

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So your argueing that Pam's dog is not red at all just because her nose is liver in pigment. How do you explain the color of her coat then? Its obviously not brown and looks like any other red Poodle with a black nose.

So if you stood Pam's Ginger and a red Poodle with a black nose next to each other and they are the same red color in coat, your still going to call Pam's brown just because her nose pigment?

Pam has an Apricot (yellow) dog with a liver nose and a Brown dog with a liver nose. If you stood her "red" dog next to a "red" with the same coat color but a black nose then it would mean she has an Apricot coated dog as yellow can be expressed with black AND liver pigment.

I do not see why y'all do not understand that there are NO red Poodles, you have dark colored Apricots who do not fade or you have dark sables who do eventually fade.

I do not know everything about poodle colors but I have read everything I can find on the subject.

wow...

:lalala:
eep:


eace:
:grouphug:

It is true about the reds all being apricot, but different shades, some affected by the dilute gene and others not. Even a deep deep red is in fact an apricot, as is a cream or a white, according to DNA, but the tips ie nose skin lips pads of feet, are liver OR black. they can have either. If you mix a brown dog with an apricot dog you can get the wrong color tips to go with a different color dog. normally if the red (apricot) dog is bred to a brown the tips have a chance of being the wrong color, liver on apricot, which is a major fault for AKC conformation.
Everything I try to say here I can back up with quotes among quotes from the poodle DNA books. Unless I'm not typing clearly what I'm thinking.

ChickyChat said:

It is true about the reds all being apricot, but different shades, some affected by the dilute gene and others not. Even a deep deep red is in fact an apricot, as is a cream or a white, according to DNA, but the tips ie nose skin lips pads of feet, are liver OR black. they can have either. If you mix a brown dog with an apricot dog you can get the wrong color tips to go with a different color dog. normally if the red (apricot) dog is bred to a brown the tips have a chance of being the wrong color, liver on apricot, which is a major fault for AKC conformation.
Everything I try to say here I can back up with quotes among quotes from the poodle DNA books. Unless I'm not typing clearly what I'm thinking.

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Right, so what were we arguing about? :lol:

in my mind red is red! haha..
izza:
Lets have some pizza

I want to share with Pamela a link to a wonderful Poodle names cedar who is red with the liver tips,
http://www.harmonyhuntingpudels.com/Cedar.html

Cedar JH (AKC Junior Hunter), SR (NAHRA Started Hunting Retriever) AKC PR07235305

Cedar is a wonder dog. There are only around 13 poodles in the US that have achieved a SR Hunt title.
This dog lives with "trigger"

Well after Chicky Chat explained, wouldn't that make Pam's Spoo a dark apricot with liver points weither its recognized by AKC or not?

roxy25 said:

I think so !

Anyways I been talking to susan cook and she has been telling me more about reds poodles. She is very knowledgeable. She showed me pictures of some of the dogs she is working with.

I also found a breeder who will be having puppies that is black. The Dam has some dogs in the pedigree that will compliment Enzo's pedigree. ( if we decide to breed him) If we don't breed her to Enzo I could stud her out to a red and work from there.

Her is the mother http://www.highfalutinpoodles.com/dellapage.html

she told me she is breeding her to CH Feldspar Midnight Oil

here are some of the red's susan has shown me

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dont you mean apricot?? lol just kidding!! couldnt resist with all of this drama.........:llama:

Thats great that you got in touch with Susan. From what I know of her so far and the way she's treated me, I really like her as well.

Thats a very pretty Red (Apricot...lol) Poodle. Sounds like your heading in a good direction for a new puppy. Hope it works out and you get a puppy soon.

ChickyChat said:

I want to share with Pamela a link to a wonderful Poodle names cedar who is red with the liver tips,
http://www.harmonyhuntingpudels.com/Cedar.html

Cedar JH (AKC Junior Hunter), SR (NAHRA Started Hunting Retriever) AKC PR07235305

Cedar is a wonder dog. There are only around 13 poodles in the US that have achieved a SR Hunt title.
This dog lives with "trigger"

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thank you for the link - Cedar looks a lot like Ginger. She will always be my redhead and her akc pedigree says red.

there is no diubt in my mind that the red poodles with black points are more beautiful. Just thought I would clarify that. But I wuv my Gingy girl - AKC name Gingerbread.:whoo:

SECRETO said:

Thats great that you got in touch with Susan. From what I know of her so far and the way she's treated me, I really like her as well.

Thats a very pretty Red (Apricot...lol) Poodle. Sounds like your heading in a good direction for a new puppy. Hope it works out and you get a puppy soon.

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Yeah Susan is very nice , I will be keeping in touch with her. she told me about DNA testing for the fading gene and where to have it done. I think Enzo has the fading Gene his mom is apricot out of black parents and his dad is red and he faded a little.