[SECRETO]

I agree as well. Plus soon your sister will be dressing Enzo up in pink clothes. lol You can't take that! lol

 

[SECRETO]

How tall is Paris ? I noticed that Trigger is only 23 inches for a male. Hopefully Paris has some height on her so you don't have to worry about getting small standard's. Either way its ok, but if Paris is only 23 inches too then your going to get small standard's. You'll just have to breed out to a larger dog when you breed her puppy later to bring the size back.

 

[SECRETO]

She is a "Doodle" breeder I would advise to look else ware for a puppy

On the topic of "reds" there is no gene in poodles that is "red" like an Irish Setter they are all genetically "Apricot" or dark creams like Labradors. Its just now breeders are keeping the fading gene out and the dogs stay a dark orange color. I have yet to see one as dark as an Irish. Also some dogs are genetically Sable which can look red but its not. The friend I have who was wanting a red Standard went to a breeder and the woman way dyeing puppies to be darker! My friend asked the lady what she was doing and the woman said "Oh just adding a little color to these pups before they go online" needless to say my friend high tailed it out of there!

Im with PP too. I would NEVER consider a person that call's themselves a breeder that breeds sheparddoodles and so forth. lol Im actually laughing because that website said enough right there. Sorry if that sounds rude but that me being real.

By the way to whom ever is looking for a puppy, a website says a lot just by the way they advertise themselves. People that are really into there dogs and the best for the breed represent there sites very well too. I may sound like a snob but its the truth. Also quality standard Poodle's run about 2,000 or 3,000 if you want a show potential. You can get a pet from a "so called breeder" that does 0 health testing for 1,000 all day long.

Wow PP, all this red talk reminds me of the bully "blue dog" stuff. Everyone's trying to get a piece of the pie. lol

 

[SECRETO]

Here is a breeder that has breed's and show's red poodles in Canada. I prefer this red vs a dark orange/red. This is just a little darker then an apricot.


http://www.lumierestandardpoodles.com/Robson.html

 

[SECRETO]

yeah of course i make sure the breeder health test. i really don't go by some ones website since many people are not web savvy. i seen all of the breeders websites on the apricot and red poodle club. this is how i got in contact with terry farley from farley d poodles. susan osburn (sp) in nevada she has bred the fourth red ch , raquel just finished so i might contact her as well since she is super close to me compared to terry and the canadian breeders.

Well, lol, from looking at her website, she looks like a much better breeder then most of the red Poodle breeder's I have seen. If a good breeder is not web savvy then they have one of there fellow breeder friends do there website. First impressions mean a great deal and internet is the best advertisment for a dog breeder. As you get further into showing and meet reputable breeder's, you will see what Im saying.

You are also right to pass up a breeder that will not take a few minutes to respond to your email (s). If you can't get there time as a potential home for their pups, you most certainly wont get the time and assistance a good breeder should want to provide after you purchase a puppy.

One thing I have learned if you want to be successful in showing sooner then later, is to be color blind. First you pick the few pup's out that have the best conformation, evaluate temperment and then decide apon color. Honestly, for me, temperment is not a major concern coming from a good breeder because they're all still just pups. You can usually tell a dead head right puppy right away. But for the most part a puppy coming from a good breeder will be well socialized for the age and pretty outgoing to most people they meet. I had to do that with Sting. I had wanted his littermate brother (creme pup) for weeks and then when I met both boys in person and I immediatly knew I would be stupid to take the creme puppy over the black because I really wanted a show potential.

Anyways, that's just something to consider because I know your very interested in showing eventually. Also, if your ever considering wanting to go AKC for showing and you don't intend to hire a handler, then I would not get a red/apricot/brown dog. Even the really good breeder's that were selling brown pups advised me for a beginner owner/handler in Poodle's stick to black or white and possibly silver. After your more recognized, then go to the other colors. Just some info I have learned and thought I'd pass on before you put a chunk of money on a show potential Poodle.

 

[SECRETO]

I still stand by what I said about not caring how their website is lol. I have met many people with great dogs over the 10 years of going to dog shows and their website is crap or out dated. I know they can pay for someone to do the website or have a friend but if they are a good breeder they don't need that kind of avertisment IMO. If i based my opinion on webistes I would end up with a small number of breeders to talk to lol IMO most have HORRIBLE websites .I agree Lumeire's website is nice. This brings to mind American bully kennels. Some of these breeders have the flashest sites great pics etc... There dogs are horrible ..... so the website does not mean anything to me.

I am not so stuck on color but if I can get another red or apricot that is nice then I might get one , other wise blue,silver,black,brown is fine with me. I just won't get a white lol

When I say nice website's Im meaning tastful and informative with nice dogs. Not meaning ghetto and neat with piles. I have seen websites that seem nice but you can tell right off the back they have crappy dogs if you know the standard of the breed well enough. With bully sites most of them are ghetto....sorry but thats true. You and I certainly have difference of what a nice dog when it comes to Amsttaffs. It didn't take my husband and I more then 2 years after going to dog show's to realize what a nice amstaff was. We were out there to take breed not to win classes for years to come. I really don't mean to sound rude at all, but that's just what its all about. People can say "oh, Im only doing it because it's fun". We all want to win and to have the top dog no matter what anyone says.

I most certainly have been out of the loop for about 2 yrs now. I don't have the time to make a mistake and take 2 yrs to figure out what a nice Poodle is for showing. I may be young and not have experience like other breeder's that have been doing it for 20 yrs but I know what it takes to start off successfully and that Im looking forward too.

Im sure Im coming off stuck up but like they say, "it is what it is". I love that saying! lol

 

[SECRETO]

Oh Roxy,

I most definatly agree about you looking for the color you like and then go from there. We all look for the color we would prefer from a breeder. Ecspecially with Poodle's you never know what will pop out.

Its kind of like Amstaffs....my husband and I prefer red and white dogs but if a fawn and white pup is the best dog in that litter then we seriously would consider it. Thats all Im getting at. lol

Oh, and Im not in the market for an Amstaff in case it came out like that. I still love the breed and there are some beautiful dogs that I would take a pup from but I just can't justify breeding Amstaffs. The way the breed population is at this point is just aweful. I really don't see it improving in the future which is very sad. Poor bully's!

 

[SECRETO]

??? I did not say a american bully is an amstaff nor did I say their dogs are nice .... please re read what I said. I said that they have better flashy websites but their dogs are horrible .... their websites are ghetto but the website is better made than some of these breeders using free website designs

American bullys does not = amstaffs ? If you think so :banghead:

I don't think your being stuck up , I just don't think you are getting what I am saying ...... you can have a fancy website with good info and still have crappy dogs. for you to base a breeder on his or her website is IMO retarded lol seriously I have met many breeders who I would consider getting a dog from and they do not have a website or have a crappy one.

There is a top breeder in my area and her website has nothing really on it ? Her dog was in the top 25 poodles in 2006 and she is a nice informed person about the breed........ Her webiste would not stop me from getting a dog from her.

LOL ..... Im not refering the American bully comment. You said on a message to me that you couldn't find a nice Amstaff and you prefer the ADBA registered type APBT's. An American bully would "IMO" mean ANY american bully breed.

I realize we have difference of opinion on what is acceptable in our eyes when deciding on purchasing a dog. I still stick behind what I said about the what you can tell off a website. I know there are some situations where there is an exception. However, for the most part you can tell a great deal just from the advertisement through a site.

You seriously can't tell me that you haven't pulled up certain websites and said to yourself what a bad site! Come on now Roxy. lol

 

[SECRETO]

Roxy said;
I have met many breeders who I would consider getting a dog from and they do not have a website or have a crappy one.

When I get into my own house I will get me a boudreaux dog or a dog off gambler's virgil bloodline.

Me again lol;
Ok I see where the difference is coming up here. What I consider a nice bred Amstaff/APBT is and what one is in your opinion are two HUGE differences. That's totally fine but we will have to agree to disagree. lol

 

[SECRETO]

Like I said before.....When I say nice website's Im meaning tastful and informative with nice dogs. Not meaning ghetto and neat with piles. I have seen websites that seem nice but you can tell right off the back they have crappy dogs if you know the standard of the breed well enough.

Chickychat,

Your website for instance doesn't look like bad at all. Its clean looking, not distracting and you have decent pics of your dogs. I don't mean decent in a bad way, but your pics aren't stacked pics. Well Trigger is semi stacked. If I was in the market for pet a (not knowing you at all) from your site I would think that your just beginning in breeding Poodles. You definitely know your health testing and seem like a reputable person to purchase a pet from. By the way Im only saying pet because neither Paris or Trigger have any show experience. If I were looking for a serious show potential I would go to a site that show's me they have a fair amount of experience breeding show dogs.

Then like you said.......you know people with Ch dogs that are begging you to do a website. Ok, so they don't have site yet. I never mentioned that people with out a site have bad dogs. Also having a Ch title on a dog doesn't mean its a great dog conformationally. Thats where all the politics come into dog showing.

 

[SECRETO]

Don't forget PurplePoodle. you are 22 years old, the same age as my Daughter. You grew up with computers in your life and Me being 47 didn't even learn to turn one on until I was 37. My husband still can't turn off the screen saver but he can build a 20 million dollar intersection and road from scratch. It isn't as easy even to do a free site as you think. Plus being our age half of us can't rememeber from one time to the next what we learned on the PC last time we turned it on.
I'm very computer literate now but I still couldn't design a banner like yours if my life depended on it.

But, I did finally put mine online two months ago and have 850 hits already. I think this would have been impossible if I'd used a free website to build it.
I do have a professional designing a new banner for me now, but it's costing me many dog biscuits to do it.
I mean no disrespect to you being 22, but as we age we may gain valuable knowledge as a breeder, but we can be stupid as heck when it comes to building even a free website with a templet.

How long have you owned/bred Poodle's now?

 

[SECRETO]

None taken I have only been internet active for 6 years, we had a computer when I was younger (around 10) but all we did was type and play games.

BTW my banner was make with MS Paint

Some people can learn computer skills quickly and others not so much. I'm the middle of the road type and can do most but not all.

Free web hosting is just as effective as having your own domain name, it all depends on where your site is listed in search engines and where you advertise

Im not all that computer savvy. I may be 26 years old and yes I grew up using a computer from time to time but it was slow and I couldn't stand it. I never used a computer really until the last 2 yrs. Luckily, I have a husband that fails at nothing, so what I can't get done he step's in and completes. I love that hubby! lol He also does pedigree page's for some of our breeder friends but that's it right now. I have confidence that he will make our's look great and teach me too eventually.

I played around with the free web stuff but didn't get far. Im planning on just buying the domain and going that route. I have some time before thats all that important. Sting's just a baby and Eli is just my lovely pet. lol

 

[SECRETO]

I use netfirms as a web host and it works well. They have a program you can download and use to build it or you can just buy the domain thru them for like 7 dollars a year. You can set the domain to point to your free site.
I am new to breeding actually and I wont mind admitting it. I have some fantastic mentors that I work with and I have researched for 3 year now, long before I even bought my first standard. We worked hard together to get her Delta Therapy Dog Certification by the time she was a year and 4 days old! I searched for two years to find Trigger to breed Paris to, and went first for conformation and color, I searched for the DD gene so that the puppies couldn't fade. I next went for Temperament and pedigree. Triggers Pedigree is FULL of champions, both American and Russian. He is still young and hasn't been shown, he had a veterinary procedure that was done when he wasn't quite out and made him afraid of people. He is a darling dog but skittish at first of strangers, so he can't be shown yet until he overcomes this. He will be going for hunt titles soon. Paris has many champions in her pedigree too, but I haven't ever shown a dog yet, and I don't think I have the backbone to take criticism like some others do. If we do get a great potential show dog I will keep it. There will be an AKC judge coming to my house at 8 weeks old to grade my puppies for show potential. Any other of my dogs will be sold as a Pet with a spay or neuter contract.
I did get an email a few days ago from a AKC, judge asking about my puppies. Word sure travels fast in the poodle world.
My website is only in the beginning stages, I hope to build it through experience as time goes on. I do put my heart and soul into this. I did have a litter of poodles 11 years ago which worked out well. Only 2 pups.

Speaking about Trigger being scared of new people....thats what Im talking about when I say that I know of many nice show dogs that came from one non-titled parent for one reason or another. It doesn't mean that that dog isn
t worthy of breeding. Thats also great that you have someone to come out and evaluate the pups at 8 weeks. Hopefully you'll have a decent amount of pups and be able to keep just the pup you want for your breeding program.

When we did our breeding with Cherry (Amstaff bitch) she only had 2 pups. The first was stillborn and the second lived for almost 2 days. We think she smothered him during the night. She had him laying in front of her chest with her legs crossed around him and her head covering him just like a good mommy would. Just as if he was alive and well. It was the saddest experience I have ever had with a dog. She looked for her baby for 2 weeks and was so depressed. We were offered to repeat the breeding but declined. It was just to much for us at that point. Since then we haven't been in any hurry to breed again or do we have anything available and ready to breed.

I realize you have your heart into this breeding just as we did. Its a special moment delivering those babies. lIts like there your own.

 

[SECRETO]

When I am talking about american bully's I mean this http://www.abkcdogs.org/ they are consider a seperate breed. I don't lump all pit bull type dogs in one category. I would never call an amstaff an american bully nor a apbt nor a staffy or a bull terrier .....

yes I seen bad websites but i can care less about the website. I find a lot of top breeders have HORRIBLE WEBSITES . I guess you think a good website has no pictures or updated events for the kennel etc..., its fine and dandy they have info about the breed and health testing but I came to the website for pictures and current wins or updated litters etc.... I know some breeders who never update and their sites , they are sooooooo old and they have decline in the quality of dogs they bred. there are breeders older than me that can not make web pages like Chickychat stated. I am 24 and I can't even make a website !

How do you think people found good breeders before the internet ? LOL

Im ready to get back to topic too but are you kidding me about the bolded portion of what you replyed ? Of course I want to see pictures (nice pics and ecspecially nice stacked pics) and it to be updated. If someone has a crappy website then the dogs usually don't look well represented either. Im talking about everything as a whole. Not just individual things about a webpage. I also never stated that you have to have a website to be a reputable breeder. I was implying that most good breeder's that have a website want it to represent there dogs as well as they do.

I really don't care if you get a dog from bad breeder or good one. Thats all you. I simply made a comment that you can tell a lot from a website.

 

[SECRETO]

According to the AKC this states as follow's:

Weimaraner....
Short, smooth and sleek, solid color, in shades of mouse-gray to silver-gray, usually blending to lighter shades on the head and ears. A small white marking on the chest is permitted, but should be penalized on any other portion of the body. White spots resulting from injury should not be penalized. A distinctly long coat is a disqualification. A distinctly blue or black coat is a disqualification.

 

[SECRETO]

I agree but some breeders do not spend much time online so again if they have a bad website who cares ........ Thats almost like judging someone based on what type of car they have ..... IMO



Yes you simply made a comment I don't agree with and does not make sense to me.
I won't be getting a dog from a bad breeder .... Like I stated in my hello thread , I been into dogs for most of my life .... I think I know where to find a good breeder. Poodles are just new to me but that does not mean I don't know where to find a quality breeder. This is why I CONTACTED Terry Farley .... :tongue:

Oh dear...:shot: lol

 

[SECRETO]

Hello Poodle People! I was reading this thread and had to chime in...
I too was looking for a dark red poodle puppy. I searched and searched and searched. I learned a great deal, including some not so savory things about breeders listed in this thread...I'm not gonna smear publicly, but will share privately if interested.
Anywho, after having a horrible interaction with a "breeder" in Iowa, I finally came across Susan at http://www.marquisdiamondstandardpoodles.com

Her website was very informative, I liked that she waited until her dogs were two years old and had passed ALL the requisite poodle health tests. I liked that she competed her dogs, that she cared enough to feed all of her dogs a homemade RAW diet, and, to top it off, she was very quick to respond to my query, answered all questions thoroughly, provided great references, and even though she prefers people to visit her home and kennel to really get a feel for the dogs she was gracious enough to pack three puppies with her to a dog show for me to meet. That's how I ended up with Monroe...He is such a great guy...and, as it turns out, he has been quite successful in his limited show career as well...he's already UKC, Nat. & International CH...next up AKC!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/katalystproductions/3196026666/" title="monroe's best in show puppy by katsdogworld, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3451/3196026666_17df11cb56_m.jpg" width="240" height="209" alt="monroe's best in show puppy"[IMG]
[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/katalystproductions/3208346067/" title="BIRD!!! by katsdogworld, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/3208346067_c1ec301a38_m.jpg" width="161" height="240" alt="BIRD!!!"[IMG]


As you can see, he's not red!!! However, Susan does breed reds as well. She has had her red bitch genetically tested...her color will not fade.
Here's a pic of Randie out of Rose's last litter:
[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/katalystproductions/3153304672/" title="Such a pretty face! by katsdogworld, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3119/3153304672_23605cbfca_m.jpg" width="213" height="240" alt="Such a pretty face!"[IMG]

Her owner tells me she's actually getting darker...I can't wait to see her again. We'll all be competing at the UKC show coming up in March in Modesto...
Just had to add in my 2 cents...Best of luck in your search![/QUOTE]



My boy Sting (16 wk puppy) is out of Susan's Antigua's Don't Look Back (black male). I didn't have a chance to speak with her yet but Im hoping she may entered in the show Im attending today. Ive heard from the breeder I purchased Sting from that she is wonderful. Im glad to hear you had the same opinion.

I would love to speak with you more but Im heading off to the bay this morning (AKC show). Its nice meeting you and I'd love to share some pics with you and get to know you better.

 

[SECRETO]

Susan Cook from Marquis Diamond Standard Poodles and Harmony Mountain Hunting Pudels (where I bred Paris with Trigger, are co-breeders!)

Paris and Triggers pups wont fade! That picture you posted is the same color as Trigger.

Susan's actually there now at a show. I have been talking to Brian Cook a little now (emailing). He seems very nice and I can't wait to speak with Susan as well. Somewhere I noticed that Sting and atleast one of the the Poodle's from Harmony Mountain go back to the same pedigree. I don't recall what dog of Harmony's it was. I feel like Im getting on the right track, breeder wise, and Im glad to know that you had a very postive experience with Harmony Mountain as well.

 

[SECRETO]

I loved Lori from Harmony Mountain. She knows so much I think she's GOD ! haha... Her dogs are SOOOO beautiful! Every one of them!

LOL....

 

[SECRETO]

Genetically red dogs can not and will not have liver pigment, red nosed pit bulls are not red they are liver in coat and nose color. Pam you can call her whatever color you want it does not mean that she is

Sorry honey, but you don't know it all. There isn't a liver color in Pit Bulls its called fawn. My Lotus is a red nose fawn and white Pit Bull. They may say the nose is liver in color (describing it) its called a red nose and the colors fawn.

These pics show Malibu (on left) which is Blue fawn Pit Bull, Cherry (middle) which is a red and white Amstaff, and Lotus (right) red nose fawn and white Pit Bull.

Anyhow, why can't Pamela call her dog a red according to you? The dog is not brown like Todds boy, her's is red in color no matter what her nose color is. So are you actually argueing that the coat isn't red or are you just defending the website or text book your reading?