Some additional info:

Peggy is groomed at our house. At her last appointment, when asked to put her front feet on the grooming table so her groomer could lift her up, she actually turned around and jumped onto the dining room table, where I've groomed her in the past. This was mostly just funny in the moment, but I realize now she probably feels much steadier on that bigger, more solid table. She never loses her balance there like I've seen happen on the grooming table.

I understand the smaller, taller table is required for a professional groom, and unfortunately I cannot groom her myself due to my own health issues. But maybe there's a way to help her feel more stable on it?

Yes, we could dose her with pain meds before each appointment, but what if masking the pain leads to injury?

 

Yes, we could dose her with pain meds before each appointment, but what if masking the pain leads to injury?

Talk to your vet, but IMO she can’t injure herself if she is not being still in any position for too long.

I think most parts of a dog can be done sitting or lying down. If standing is the problem, I would think a good groomer is capable of doing an okay job without require it from the dog. Or very little. Paws can be done while lying on her side.

For the underside, what I do with my littles is ask them to show me their belly, on the ground (I put a towel down). Then I crounch down and do pretty much everything under. For Peggy I would put a yoga mattress down. It’s not ideal for the groomer’s back, but maybe she would be willing to do it.

Also, some groomers have a hanging belt that they put under the dogs belly so it doesn’t have to use its legs much to stay up. This would be beneficial for Peggy and if it works, it might even be the best solution.

 

Annie's also having health issues right now, though probably not pain related. My own capacity is limited by pain, too. I just groomed her this week.

I'm did a bath a day or two before I did any clipping, and am reminding myself to be OK with missed spots on her toes or face. I did FFT/sani plus scissored her tail and head. Scissoring the head can be done with dog lying down if you're not looking for perfection. I also rotate between feet- i clip all the tops first, then often do two rounds of in between her toes, as Annie isn't a huge fan of her front feet being groomed, and likes getting breaks. I think breaking it up is more comfortable for her, as the position feet are manipulated into for grooming can be a weird angle. I gave her a break midway through clipp⁰ing her face to do some brushing with her lying down, too.


I am now debating, 2 days later, clipping her body, but likely won't have time for another week, at which point she'll need another bath first...

Maybe it would make sense to bath Peggy a day or two in advance, then have the groomer do the tricky bits, then do the the easy bits yourself a day or two later?

 

Thinking... what size of grooming table does your groomer use? Could you buy one of the XL portable grooming tables if those are larger?

 

Super helpful, @For Want of Poodle. Thank you.

I'm not sure what size table our groomer uses, but there is minimal space around Peggy's feet. That could be intentional to prevent excessive movement, but may also be a necessary part of the mobile experience. Maybe I could invest in a larger table, and just keep it here. Really good idea. Even if it's just a few extra inches, could make a difference.

I could also do a pre-bath, but Peggy's groomer has developed a routine that works well for Peggy's sensitive skin and eyes: She does a rough FFT, then a bath and eye rinse, then the rest of the groom. I wonder if we should maybe just start doing FFTs and a bath for one appointment, and then her body for another.

I'm also considering moving away from clean feet. I love them for so many reasons, but the process requires a lot of balancing.

 

I would ask her groomer whether she is prepared to use your dining table - Peggy's is a fairly simple groom with minimal scissoring and with one or two careful turns it may work. Would a sling help? Or splitting the groom into shorter sessions - bath and rough cut one day, finishing later, or something like that? I did Poppy over several days towards the end, but that is easier when you groom yourself than fitting into a professional's schedule.

Posted at the same time as you, PtP!

 

I wonder, would a wet face cloth be enough to do a touch up for the itchies after FFT?

If i skimp on nice clean feet for any reason, i find it helpful to still do clean paw pads. I find Annie slides more on my flooring with hair around her pads which makes me cautious due to a previous injury in her rear.

 

Does your groomer have access to an overhead arm on her table? If so a rear support system could be very benefical in supporting Peggy's balance. The two common types of supports would be something like this LIPSystem Geriatric Hip Support or this https://www.petedge.com/the-belly-b...the-belly-band?srsltid=AfmBOoqeQ2sopY0p4YmNziNPR2iC9vwhVbFgZmfrXQ9NuTCLA8of-JUY.

Those really only support the rear though, you could also look into a hammock, but instead of hanging her in it, just keeping it tight enough to take her weight when you lift a leg.

I do agree about skipping the clean feet, and just doing paw pads. I found that post stroke, shaving feet was very hard on Evie.

Another option would be teaching her to lay on her side for grooming, that way the standing time during the clipping and drying is minimal.

 

We use our kitchen table for grooming. We cover the table with a quite thick rubber exercise matt cut to size which stays put and it works perfectly. There is absolutely no sliding. It’s all super stable. We have a grooming arm we attach as needed. It seems to me that if Peggy is comfortable on your dining room table that would be good to try. Maybe it’s considered big but if it’s comfortable for her I’m thinking she could be easily trained to stay put as needed. A larger table would give her room to lay down,shift and I’m guessing feel way more secure. I’m no expert but I really do like our kitchen table set up. We also have a foldable ramp which makes it easy for Bobby get on and off the table. Something to consider as she gets older if you decide on the dining room table.

 

Where is the table when Peggy gets groomed? What about setting up the table against a wall, or in a corner? If it doesn’t freak her out to be penned in like that, she might take comfort from having the wall to catch her if she falls or leans away from the groomer.

I wanted Pinot to lie down on the grooming table but he resisted hard. One day, I put it against a wall and he was much more willing to do it. Now he’ll lie down and let me get his “undercarriage” and I’m starting to do his paws while he’s on his side.

Maybe one answer is trying a lie down grooming as others have suggested. I found putting the grooming table against the wall seemed to increase Pinot’s confidence. Now it doesn’t need to be against the wall (but it helps - stays down for longer when it is so I get more done before he stands up).

 

Add my vote to training her to lie flat for some of the grooming, if your groomer is willing to work on a recumbent dog. I was also wondering what your bathing setup is like. Does Peggy have a non-slip mat to stabilize her while she's under the hose?

 

I groom my dog at home, with an occasional professional grooming a few times a year (fewer than 3). My guy is young with no pain but I see no reason to make him stand the whole time. As an amateur, it also takes me longer. The night before, I bathe and get him 90% dry (on the table, but he moves around a bunch - stands, sits, lies down, whatever) & then let him air dry the rest of the way overnight. In the morning, brush with slicker and groom. But I have him lie down on his side for almost the entire process - I groom one side while he sleeps. When that side is done, sometimes we take a quick walk break, but other times I flip him over to his other side like a pancake (he doesn’t even bother to stand up) and continue on the other side. We finish with him standing/sitting as necessary for final touches. Probably 20 minutes of standing at the end.

He is a 55 pound standard and legit falls entirely asleep. His resulting groom is good enough that I get asked who I send him to for grooming ! He is usually clipped all over at 3/4 of an inch with FFS. If you could train her to lie down & relax, she may really find it easier on her joints!

 

Oh - in case it helps, I have a 42 inch table. His whole body is comfortably supported, legs hang off a bit - easier for feet! And I agree with the poster above that putting it against the wall while you teach her to relax on it would be a good idea.

 

Picasso is getting age-related stiffness after grooming, so I feel you. I'm sure you're already doing all you can to support her poor joints in the diet/supplement department. Are you giving carprofen or similar before/after grooms? We do this for Picasso and it helps him tremendously. I've given consideration to renting out heated pool time for him as a low-impact way for him to keep his muscles strongenough to help compensate for the deterioration of his joints that happens with age.

I'd also echo what everyone else has to say about putting the table by the wall and upgrading to a slightly larger one with an extra layer of a softer cushion. Putting some weight on the bottom of your table can also help it from being so top-heavy and shaky. Much of the grooming can be done lying down on the table, especially if your groomer knows you value Peggy's comfort and health over a perfect haircut.

This has nothing to do with any of my dog experience, but rather with my personal experience: is your house warm enough after her bath? I personally get very sore going from a nice warm bath to the relative coldness of my house. The muscle tensing (and in some cases shivering) from the temperature swing makes my body even more sore than it often is already. When I have the house warmer or use heated towels, I am much more comfortable. I also slip/slide in the tub sometimes which makes me very sore after a shower, so a non-slip mat on the bottom of the tub could help prevent any jolts to her muscles and joints from sliding on a slippery bathing surface.

 

We are in the process of diagnosing the source of Peggy's pain, but it seems to be affecting her lower back, her hips, and possibly her knees. We are careful not to overdo exercise, but grooming asks a lot of her body.

Before we realized the extent of her pain, her groomer and I noticed she really struggled during her last appointment. And we actually ended up skipping her bath and I just did it myself a week later. (Bad idea, as she was extremely itchy and irritated, and this led to close to a month of discomfort.)

In the past, we've tackled grooming challenging with counter-conditioning and a cooperative approach. Now I realize we were missing a piece of the puzzle: Accommodating for possible pain and balance issues.

I've navigated this with a much smaller (and much older) dog, who I ultimately ended up just grooming in my lap. But I'm not really sure where to begin with Peggy. Any tips or personal experience to share?

I will also ask her groomer for guidance.

As a groomer I have had several dogs large dogs included that couldn’t stand for grooming and I had to groom them laying down which most of the groom is achievable like this .Then with your support for the final bits, on the dining table also shouldn’t be a problem for the groomer

 

Another vote for 'do some of it lying down'! If the grooming table isn't big enough for that, I'd definitely consider alternatives such as your own grooming table or the dining room table. It would probably be impossible to get a nice, fancy, scissored haircut this way, but a one-length-all-over is easy, and even a simple lamb trim is possible.

I started grooming Aoife on the floor out of lack of space, but now I'm glad she's used to it. I shave her feet (clean feet) with her lying down upright but over on each hip, usually (her preference), but I shave her chest, belly, armpits, groin, and inner legs (plus parts of her outer legs) while she's lying flat on her side. She does need to move from one side to the other to accomplish this, but usually if you can teach one side, the other shouldn't be an issue unless it's painful.

I have her sit to clip her face--initially it was because it was more comfortable for her to point her nose to the sky while sitting, but now it's part of our communication system as well--if she stays seated, I can keep clipping her face, but if she stands up, she's done. It works well for us!

I clip the body and sanitary while she is standing, but this doesn't take long if you've already done the belly/chest/legs. No reason you need to, but it is a little easier, I think. Aoife has lower back pain, so one of my personal rules now is that I don't get any clean-up strokes over sensitive areas--one pass with the clippers and then I'm done. It's often not terribly neat, but if you use a short blade (I'm using a 7F), it's not too noticeable. Also, any time the dog is not limp and loose in my hands when grooming (I'm currently working on nail trimming for this with Aoife), I work on it outside of grooming time as a training issue, because tensing up is going to cause pain that the actual grooming might not.

I would highly, highly recommend pain medication if you have any concerns about pain during grooming. Worrying about pain makes the dog tense up, which causes more pain, which makes them hate grooming, which makes them tense up worse, which is a horrible, vicious cycle. Both of my dogs are much, much easier to groom, and therefore faster, as well, when properly medicated.

I don't know what restrictions you, Peggy, and the groomer each individually have regarding what can be done, but from what you've said, I think you might seriously consider separating FFT and body groom into two sessions (if feasible), and/or changing the setup so that Peggy can be taught to lie down for part of the groom.

Are you usually able to observe while Peggy is being groomed? If not, I would ask if you can set up a camera for times when you're not around. You're the one most likely to notice when Peggy is a little reluctant to do something, which is a sign that it might be uncomfortable. Once you have noticed, you have a target for what needs to change and what doesn't. Some of the same things I do for Aoife because of her back pain, Casey doesn't like even though he also has rear end pain. I don't know if it's because Aoife has back pain and Casey has hip and knee pain, or if it's just personality, but they tell me different things and I try my best to listen!

 

This is all so helpful. Thank you!!

I think if I’d considered pain as a factor in the early days, I’d have approached grooming very differently. My own health issues make it very hard for me to stand still. Kind of sad that I never considered Peggy might be struggling, too. It was always about “training.”

 

Notes from today's professional groom:

-Peggy was encouraged to sit on the table as much as possible, and whenever she wanted, rather than being asked to stand still. I think the table is too small for her to comfortably lay down, but maybe this will be an option if I invest in a larger table.
-The appointment was kept to the bare minimum - just a rough clip on her body, shaved face, and shaved base of her tail. Her paw pads were also cleaned up, but her feet were just scissored. We then sat in the backyard with her for a bit, relaxing and soaking up the sun, before heading back inside for a much-needed bath. No blow dry.
-Peggy wasn't showing any signs of pain today, and the appointment lasted only 1 hr 15 minutes vs. the more typical 2-3 hrs. But in the future we might shorten her appointments even further. Her groomer has even had clients who required weekly appointments, with very little being done at each.
-Next time her groomer will bring a loop for Peggy's body rather than her neck, as Peggy has a tendency to really lean into it.
-Editing to add: Oh! And she lifted Peggy onto the table, carefully supporting her, rather than having her place her front feet on the table and then lifting just her rear.

I think that covers it. We also talked extensively about pain diagnosis and management. She is an experienced dog professional (trainer, groomer, agility instructor, etc.) and has worked with dogs in all life stages. Her insights are so valuable to me, but nothing trumps the value of her love for Peggy.

 

It sounds like you have a marvelous groomer!

 

I really do feel so very lucky, and I said that to her today, multiple times. She has taught me a lot.

Her guiding principle as a groomer is empathy.