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Discussion Starter #1
I’m convinced my 17 month old second spoo will never be house trained.

She does this infuriating thing where she will be awesome at house trained behavior for several weeks including alerting me when she needs to go outside etc, and then out of the blue without any warning she will pee right in front of me in the house. If she had alerted me it was too subtle for my notice and I’m always super vigilant when she is free in the house. But I guess I get lulled into a sense of security after several weeks of perfect behavior.

I’m so frustrated. It feels like this will never end.

Could this be related to her just finishing up her first heat cycle? Is there reason to think it may get better after she is spayed? I’ve read that females pee a lot during heat cycles to mark territory or whatever.

Any encouraging words or advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks
 

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Mine have always found it more difficult to hold urine when in season, so it could be related, but if it has been happening intermittently it could also be an infection, or simply that you slip into expecting her to wait just a bit too long. A vet check would be a good idea, but quick trip out every few hours may be all that's needed.
 

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I don't think house training accidents are the dog's accidents. Generally I think they are slip ups at our end. We miss a signal or don't understand the dog's signal or just plain miss it. In the humane hierarchy of training the first thing to do is make sure the dog is healthy. Next you go back a bit closer to basics and reteach/relearn when you know the dog is healthy. So I would go to the vet first.
 

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Mia, Christmas in June 2010
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Agree with above.

Is she peeing in the same place inside? There may be a trace smell or other cue that tells her it's ok to pee in that spot.
 

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Assuming there are no health reasons, it sounds like she maybe isn't good at communicating. I realize it is very easy to forget especially when trying to maintain consistency for a few weeks - would it help to spend a month or two with alarms on your phone to let the dog out every 3-4 hours? Then it's no longer on the dog to say when she needs out. Plus, it can teach the dog to eliminate on a regular and predictable schedule.

Getting that last 2% towards perfect housetraining sure can be frustrating!

I found with Annie that mopping the entire floor with enzyme cleaner was the last thing I needed to do to achieve perfect house training. After I did this, she never peed inside again. It's very easy for a small amount of urine to have been tracked somewhere else during potty training, so the scent is still in the house despite spot cleaning the area. If you have carpets, I would probably steam clean the whole carpet preferably with an enzyme cleaner, then spend a month or two working on reliable potty trips.
 

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I find that having the dog sit at the door before letting them out teaches them to go sit at the door when it's time. Although, my border collie would stare at me, then look at the door. Me, the door, me, the door. Because I can read minds.

You might put something at the door that makes noise. A bell on the handle, or a rug that plays music.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks all for the helpful tips. I generally agree that slip ups in house training are the human’s fault, but I swear up and down and left and right that I’m giving her plenty of outside time and trying to understand her signals. I’ve raised my other spoo from puppyhood just two years before her and we never had a single problem with him. He is just as subtle with the signaling, and in fact many times he never needs to signal because we let them out so frequently. Clearly though, there is a miscommunication. I think the idea of having a rug that plays a sound is a good one, I’ll have to look for one.
 

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Peggy Sue, Standard Poodle Born May 2019
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My last girl marked inside her whole life, but only if a male dog came to visit. Like your poodle, she would do it right in front of me, as though she'd never been housetrained. She definitely didn't ask to go out because she didn't want to go out. She wanted to pee wherever that dog had been.

Are there any territorial issues between your two?
 

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Along with all the other good suggestions, is there any chance you could be dealing with excitement or submissive piddling?

I once worked in a business incubator space which allowed people to bring dogs. One of the other tenants had a rather nervy standard poodle, Moose, which was promptly dubbed Moose the Puddle by my co-workers. Every single time this dog encountered one of our male staff members in the corridor he would squat and pee. Female staffers had a 50:50 chance of escaping without the waterworks turning on; it depended on whether we did anything particularly exciting or threatening. It got to the point where we kept a roll of paper towels and a bottle of Windex by the door in case of unexpected Moose encounters. We also instructed everyone to completely ignore Moose and to avoid speaking in his presence.
 

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I don’t have any tips and definitely there have been some good ones offered. What I hope to offer is a bit of encouragement. My boy, who just turned 2 years, was not an easy dog to house break. He was definitely a late bloomer in that department. I was always amazed how much Bobby could pee. I don’t think he was relatively reliable until about 8 months when it came to peeing. I say relatively because, he had a sprinkling problem that lasted for months after. If he got excited or his bladder got full, or he got emotional he would sprinkle tinkle, like a kid trying to hold it but just couldn’t quite do it. Oftentimes it would happen even right after he gone outside, with us out there with him so we knew he went. The sprinkling got better and better as he got older but I would say, he did it periodically until almost 18 months. No matter how faithful we were at letting him out, and were beyond faithful because he had such a pee problem, he still had this the sprinkle problem.
It definitely wasn’t marking, although he did start that so we neutered him at 13 months. That problem went away quickly. Anyway, the sprinkling finally seemed to resolve itself.

Bobby’s signals are very subtle during the day. Interestingly, he will let us know he has to go when we are sleeping by quietly putting his snooter gently in our face and just hold it there. It’s a good thing we wake up easily because he is so gentle. He has never once barked to tell us, nor does he stand by the door like our first dog did. He will go to the door but doesn’t stay so sometimes we miss it. Sometimes he just goes to the door because he wants to look out or just to see what’s going on outside as when we bring him out he just looks around. He totally knows the “potty” command and he‘s super good with that. All of this to say, have to be SO very observant and very consistent in letting him out. Someone mentioned a musical rug. That sounds like a fabulous idea!

I will end with this story that took place just this last week. Bobby had to go really bad but I missed his cues. I was getting him ready for his walk but at a later start, which is not unusual, and just as I was getting my coat on I hear the terrible sound of peeing. I quickly got him outside ( while I didn’t get angry I did startle him) and the poor dog peed and peed. I felt so bad all day as it really was my fault. While, he of course, had been outside earlier, I got sidetracked and waited too long. I was angry but not at him. I was mad at myself. Anyway, I’m sharing this to say, you are not alone and sometimes there are setbacks but we just keep working on the things that we need to work on with our dogs and for some of us, it‘s a late bloomer in the pee department. Definitely make sure there isn’t a medical problem as others have said if there isn’t anything going on medically, you may just have a late bloomer. Keep learning and training, using ideas that others have shared and know it will get better. While as frustrating as it is, try not to be angry as dogs will pick up on that which could possibly make the problem worse. I feel for you! Hang in there!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
My last girl marked inside her whole life, but only if a male dog came to visit. Like your poodle, she would do it right in front of me, as though she'd never been housetrained. She definitely didn't ask to go out because she didn't want to go out. She wanted to pee wherever that dog had been.

Are there any territorial issues between your two?
That is both very validating and very discouraging. Haha!

There might be— my boy is pretty protective of me and he seems to be trying to keep her from cuddling with me, and he always inserts himself when I’m giving her attention. It’s been something I wrote off as just them playing because it looked more like he just wanted to engage her in play, but it only happens when she comes over to cuddle with me. Do you think this is something I could improve? I’ve started to discourage it, but I don’t know if they are getting the message.....
 

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Along with all the other good suggestions, is there any chance you could be dealing with excitement or submissive piddling?
I second this as something to look into! If body language signals would match excitement or submission at the moment the peeing is happening. It was sometimes an issue with my dog with the head of the family, leaving a puddle behind.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I don’t have any tips and definitely there have been some good ones offered. What I hope to offer is a bit of encouragement. My boy, who just turned 2 years, was not an easy dog to house break. He was definitely a late bloomer in that department. I was always amazed how much Bobby could pee. I don’t think he was relatively reliable until about 8 months when it came to peeing. I say relatively because, he had a sprinkling problem that lasted for months after. If he got excited or his bladder got full, or he got emotional he would sprinkle tinkle, like a kid trying to hold it but just couldn’t quite do it. Oftentimes it would happen even right after he gone outside, with us out there with him so we knew he went. The sprinkling got better and better as he got older but I would say, he did it periodically until almost 18 months. No matter how faithful we were at letting him out, and were beyond faithful because he had such a pee problem, he still had this the sprinkle problem.
It definitely wasn’t marking, although he did start that so we neutered him at 13 months. That problem went away quickly. Anyway, the sprinkling finally seemed to resolve itself.

Bobby’s signals are very subtle during the day. Interestingly, he will let us know he has to go when we are sleeping by quietly putting his snooter gently in our face and just hold it there. It’s a good thing we wake up easily because he is so gentle. He has never once barked to tell us, nor does he stand by the door like our first dog did. He will go to the door but doesn’t stay so sometimes we miss it. Sometimes he just goes to the door because he wants to look out or just to see what’s going on outside as when we bring him out he just looks around. He totally knows the “potty” command and he‘s super good with that. All of this to say, have to be SO very observant and very consistent in letting him out. Someone mentioned a musical rug. That sounds like a fabulous idea!

I will end with this story that took place just this last week. Bobby had to go really bad but I missed his cues. I was getting him ready for his walk but at a later start, which is not unusual, and just as I was getting my coat on I hear the terrible sound of peeing. I quickly got him outside ( while I didn’t get angry I did startle him) and the poor dog peed and peed. I felt so bad all day as it really was my fault. While, he of course, had been outside earlier, I got sidetracked and waited too long. I was angry but not at him. I was mad at myself. Anyway, I’m sharing this to say, you are not alone and sometimes there are setbacks but we just keep working on the things that we need to work on with our dogs and for some of us, it‘s a late bloomer in the pee department. Definitely make sure there isn’t a medical problem as others have said if there isn’t anything going on medically, you may just have a late bloomer. Keep learning and training, using ideas that others have shared and know it will get better. While as frustrating as it is, try not to be angry as dogs will pick up on that which could possibly make the problem worse. I feel for you! Hang in there!
Thanks for that ♥ My girl does the same thing where she will go to the door but not stay there so it makes it hard to know for sure.
 

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Peggy Sue, Standard Poodle Born May 2019
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That is both very validating and very discouraging. Haha!

There might be— my boy is pretty protective of me and he seems to be trying to keep her from cuddling with me, and he always inserts himself when I’m giving her attention. It’s been something I wrote off as just them playing because it looked more like he just wanted to engage her in play, but it only happens when she comes over to cuddle with me. Do you think this is something I could improve? I’ve started to discourage it, but I don’t know if they are getting the message.....
If your boy is guarding you from her, even subtly, then yes, this is definitely something that can be worked on. At the very least, you want to ensure it doesn't get worse or start manifesting in other ways.

Might be worth a new thread, asking for advice from those with multi-dog households? I'm fairly useless in this regard. I was recently cuddling with our trainer's dog, and she said, "You know he's guarding you from Peggy right now, right?"

Lol. Nope. I had no clue. I was just really enjoying his uncharacteristic display of affection.

Maybe @lily cd re would have some ideas for you.
 
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