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Will he Eventually change and react normally?
Or he could stay like this for long time?
Just verifying, is the only time this happens when you pick him up?

Is there any other circumstance where a different action or different person causes him to react by peeing?

Did the breeder say that he'd done this with them or someone or some action while with them?

Did the vet say he's healthy overall?

Is he coming to you before you pick him up or are you going to him?

Will he come to you and sit in your lap without peeing? If so, you might try picking him up from that position rather than from the floor. Try standing slowly from a sitting position on a chair or sofa with him in your arms. Does he pee then?
If not, you've got a building point. Let him get used to that by practicing two or three times a day. Then try from the floor up only a couple of feet then put him down. Does he pee then? If not, practice that at different times like above.
If you can get to where you can pick him up either of those ways reliably without peeing, then try the full pick up, slowly.

There is something called The Rule of Three that might partially apply here. It's generally thought of with rescue dogs but the concepts are still applicable. These are still only guidelines, not hard and fast rules.

In the first three days at home with you, your dog may:
  • Feel overwhelmed by their surroundings
  • Not feel comfortable enough to be himself
  • Not want to eat their food or drink their water
  • Be scared and unsure of what’s going on
  • Shut down and curl up in their bed
  • Behave definitely and test your boundaries
In the first three weeks at home with you, your dog may:
  • Start to settle in
  • Feel more comfortable
  • Figure out his environment
  • Get into the routine you’ve set
  • Let their guard down and start showing their real personality
  • Start showing ingrained behavior issues
  • Figure out this is their new home
After three months at home with you, your dog may:
  • Feel comfortable at home
  • Have built trust and a true bond with you
  • Have gained a complete sense of security with their new family
  • Embrace their new routine wholeheartedly

If this is submissive peeing or he's still just unsure, it's likely that he'll grow out of it, as my Remo did. It's also possible, but less likely that this can go on longer.

On the medical side, it may be a still immature bladder. This wouldn't require medical attention, just getting a bit older.

As PTP reminded, how comfortable you can help him to be, and help build his confidence by going slowly and letting him see that there's nothing to fear will build deeper trust and help to resolve this.

Is he still otherwise acting normally, playing and such?
 

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Discussion Starter #43 (Edited)
Just verifying, is the only time this happens when you pick him up?

Is there any other circumstance where a different action or different person causes him to react by peeing?

Did the breeder say that he'd done this with them or someone or some action while with them?

Did the vet say he's healthy overall?

Is he coming to you before you pick him up or are you going to him?

Will he come to you and sit in your lap without peeing? If so, you might try picking him up from that position rather than from the floor. Try standing slowly from a sitting position on a chair or sofa with him in your arms. Does he pee then?
If not, you've got a building point. Let him get used to that by practicing two or three times a day. Then try from the floor up only a couple of feet then put him down. Does he pee then? If not, practice that at different times like above.
If you can get to where you can pick him up either of those ways reliably without peeing, then try the full pick up, slowly.

There is something called The Rule of Three that might partially apply here. It's generally thought of with rescue dogs but the concepts are still applicable. These are still only guidelines, not hard and fast rules.

In the first three days at home with you, your dog may:
  • Feel overwhelmed by their surroundings
  • Not feel comfortable enough to be himself
  • Not want to eat their food or drink their water
  • Be scared and unsure of what’s going on
  • Shut down and curl up in their bed
  • Behave definitely and test your boundaries
In the first three weeks at home with you, your dog may:
  • Start to settle in
  • Feel more comfortable
  • Figure out his environment
  • Get into the routine you’ve set
  • Let their guard down and start showing their real personality
  • Start showing ingrained behavior issues
  • Figure out this is their new home
After three months at home with you, your dog may:
  • Feel comfortable at home
  • Have built trust and a true bond with you
  • Have gained a complete sense of security with their new family
  • Embrace their new routine wholeheartedly

If this is submissive peeing or he's still just unsure, it's likely that he'll grow out of it, as my Remo did. It's also possible, but less likely that this can go on longer.

On the medical side, it may be a still immature bladder. This wouldn't require medical attention, just getting a bit older.

As PTP reminded, how comfortable you can help him to be, and help build his confidence by going slowly and letting him see that there's nothing to fear will build deeper trust and help to resolve this.

Is he still otherwise acting normally, playing and such?
He is 3 weeks in the house. When we come to him he is afraid.
He is afraid of everything, barely plays, eats well.

Just verifying, is the only time this happens when you pick him up?

Yes

Is there any other circumstance where a different action or different person causes him to react by peeing?

Not sure. But 6 out of 10 times he pees when I pick him up.

Did the breeder say that he'd done this with them or someone or some action while with them?
No she never mentioned that.

Did the vet say he's healthy overall?
I have an appointment on Tuesday.

Is he coming to you before you pick him up or are you going to him?
Some times he comes, when he doesnt I come to him. He is always scared.
behaves very succinctly.

what’s interesting though for couple days he was very active and confident, then again he started to act scared


Will he come to you and sit in your lap without peeing?

Yes

If so, you might try picking him up from that position rather than from the floor. Try standing slowly from a sitting position on a chair or sofa with him in your arms. Does he pee then?

No


If not, you've got a building point. Let him get used to that by practicing two or three times a day. Then try from the floor up only a couple of feet then put him down. Does he pee then?

we pick him up a lot and very carefully.
 

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I'm going to ask something different.

Would you mind describing what a regular day is like for him?

Where does he sleep? Alone, or with you, or Max? In a crate or free to roam?

What's the daily routine for him and you and Max from wake up to go to sleep?

Would it be possible to take another video of him when he appears afraid of something?
 

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Discussion Starter #45
I'm going to ask something different.

Would you mind describing what a regular day is like for him?

Where does he sleep? Alone, or with you, or Max? In a crate or free to roam?

What's the daily routine for him and you and Max from wake up to go to sleep?

Would it be possible to take another video of him when he appears afraid of something?

Would you mind describing what a regular day is like for him?

My wife takes him out in The morning to pee and poop. in the morning He always pees two times within in 5 minutes, whole day he is with her, 70% in her arms. She takes him out about 5 to 6 times a day. She goes to sleep around 10 PM. Eats Twice a day, Morning and around six or 7 PM

today I sat On the floor and he came to me and didn’t pee.
But when I took him to pee outside, he did not pee, when I picked him up he Peed.


Where does he sleep? Alone, or with you, or Max? In a crate or free to roam?

Max is sleeping in the crate on the first floor, toy poodle is sleeping in our bedroom in the crate, the crate is on the floor by the bed, he does not cry.


Would it be possible to take another video of him when he appears afraid of something?

I’ll do that later maybe today
 

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I would cut back on the picking up. I personally try not to pick dogs up more than a few times a day, and preferably only when they ask. Yes crouching to their level is a pain, but it's worth it to build the dogs confidence.

I say 'ready? Up!" And the dog usually comes towards me. If they don't want to be picked up, they move away and I try to respect that. Having the CHOICE really helps make my dogs happy to be picked up.

When I was a kid, we had a small dog. My dad would yell at me 'Put that dog down! She has 4 legs!" Annoying but he was right. Dogs gain a lot of confidence from having agency, the ability to go where they wish and make decisions.

If I had a small, nervous dog, I would put them on a long line or a Flexi and go somewhere quiet very frequently. An empty park, a country road, a field.... And just let the dog sniff. Have a pocket of treats and maybe take a mat to sit on, and just sit there and let the dog explore. Pet them if they come to you, let them roam if they don't. My mom has dog who was incredibly anxious and lots of outdoor time to sniff was the best thing we did for her.

As for submissive/excitement peeing - it usually goes away with age. My dog submissive peed every time she met someone new, then it faded to every occasion she was in a new place, she peed for the first person she met, then just new dogs. By a year, it was pretty much over, though she will still use it if she is nervous of a dog.
 

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FWoP makes a good point. In his life before he was very likely allowed the independence to move and go where he chose, within some reasonable boundaries. By being up in someone's arms for much of the day, that independence is gone.
It's very tempting and done with love to try to hold these little ones close, literally, but its not helping to build confidence. Imagine yourself in his paws.

Is Max picked up as often and held as much thru the day or is he given the ability to choose?

I don't pick my boys up very often unless there's a need. Sometimes that need is mine, to just plant a smooch on their nose, but then they're right back down. There's plenty of snuggle time whenever we're all relaxing. They choose to come to us and we have a lot of cuddle time then.

What other kinds of activities are you doing together? Is there any time spent on fun training daily?

You know that poodles are very smart and need to have their brains engaged every day too. If he's got the basic obedience skills learned consider doing some trick training.

AKC training - get certified or just learn the steps
AKC Canine Good Citizen - mix or pure breed

AKC Trick Dog - mix or pure breed

Teaching a dog something new and fun and helping them master new skills is a wonderful way to build confidence and make your bond even stronger.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
FWoP makes a good point. In his life before he was very likely allowed the independence to move and go where he chose, within some reasonable boundaries. By being up in someone's arms for much of the day, that independence is gone.
It's very tempting and done with love to try to hold these little ones close, literally, but its not helping to build confidence. Imagine yourself in his paws.

Is Max picked up as often and held as much thru the day or is he given the ability to choose?

I don't pick my boys up very often unless there's a need. Sometimes that need is mine, to just plant a smooch on their nose, but then they're right back down. There's plenty of snuggle time whenever we're all relaxing. They choose to come to us and we have a lot of cuddle time then.

What other kinds of activities are you doing together? Is there any time spent on fun training daily?

You know that poodles are very smart and need to have their brains engaged every day too. If he's got the basic obedience skills learned consider doing some trick training.

AKC training - get certified or just learn the steps
AKC Canine Good Citizen - mix or pure breed

AKC Trick Dog - mix or pure breed

Teaching a dog something new and fun and helping them master new skills is a wonderful way to build confidence and make your bond even stronger.
Here is the video I uploaded.

 

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473577

473578


In these two pictures he appears to be sitting proudly, as a poodle would, and playing as a poodle would. You've said that he and Max get along well. Is that still the case?

In the video, I'm torn between thinking that he's in pain and having trouble moving normally, or maybe that he's got something uncomfortable stuck in his fur at the back end, or he is just very frightened.

I believe that you care very well for your poodles so I'd definitely get to the vet as soon as you can. If he's somehow hurt himself and he's in pain, I know you'll take care of that.

I think you'd initially said that things seemed good all around, so when did this change happen, if it is a change and not how he's been since the first day?

He is so very handsome and looks very sweet but he's definitely not comfortable with something.

I wonder if there's any value in sending the breeder the link so she can assess him there compared to his time with her?
 

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Aw. My heart! That is one sweet but scared little poodle. :( I’d stay low to the ground. Be calm and gentle. Maybe play with some toys quietly so he can come investigate. Just keep things very mellow for the next few weeks if you can. When a dog is rehomed, it can take months for them to settle in. And in this case I do wonder if he was properly socialized.

Let us know what the vet says, too. I’d arm myself with some yummy things in case he is not comfortable in the vet’s office. You could also let them know in advance that your little guy is nervous and still adjusting to his new life.
 

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As I understand it, two breeders are in collaboration. Molodets pup, Munchen, was bred by one and sold for her by the other. This all checks out.

I don't think Munchen was a return as there's another pup still on the AKC marketplace being advertised. I'm kind of inclined to think the actual breeder is going thru something and her breeder friend is helping out. The pup was flown with a nanny to Molodets after much discussion with the breeder who had Munchen under her care.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
As I understand it, two breeders are in collaboration. Molodets pup, Munchen, was bred by one and sold for her by the other. This all checks out.

I don't think Munchen was a return as there's another pup still on the AKC marketplace being advertised. I'm kind of inclined to think the actual breeder is going thru something and her breeder friend is helping out. The pup was flown with a nanny to Molodets after much discussion with the breeder who had Munchen under her care.
Thats correct.
 

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Discussion Starter #54 (Edited)
When I bought him home he was extremely shy, week later he was comfortable.
His 3rd week is today and he is shy again,
uncomfortable. Ive noticed my wife holds him in her hands most of the time.

He doesnt know how to ask to go potty, he kind of understands he cant release himself in the house 👍👍👍.
She is potty training him, doesnt want him to make accidents. She is working from home and he is with her all the time.
I checked his fur he doesn’t have anything stuck, he is definitely not in pain.
Im taking him to the vet on Tuesday, but I really dont think vet can do anything.
And of course I will take some dry liver beef treats with me. He loves them.
 

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Here is the video I uploaded.

Poor baby.

That body language reminds me a lot of my mom's Yorkie when she first came home to us. We had never seen anything like it. She was terrified. She wanted desperately to be picked up and reassurance but was way too afraid to be picked up, walking around trying to find somewhere 'safe'. Extreme anxiety. Actually with me just pure terror- no desire to come to me at all, though she liked my mom.

Getting down to her level and a lot of patience - not reaching for the dog but waiting for it to come to you- helped a lot. This might take many minutes before they do. We used to say we treated her like a feral cat. Ignore ignore ignore don't look at the dog, just have a great treat casually in our hands.

We also had success with providing her with lots of hiding spots (coffee tables and a crate) and Rescue remedy. She still will hide under a table if she is nervous about being caught, so she can feel safe while you hook on a leash. I had success with making her like me by feeding table scraps as I ate. She is now an accomplished beggar, the only dog I have ever had that begged, but I said at the time that I would rather a dog that begged that I could touch than one that ran in fear. I think me sitting still on a chair and the safety of the table to hide under helped too. She took a very long time to toilet train - we finally trusted her at about 4.

Taking her any where really backfired, no socialization was possible until she was more confident with us.

She remains an anxious dog, but at 5,has grown in leaps and bounds and tiny milestones with lots of patience, lots of treats, and lots of respecting her fears. She has a social life, and loves old ladies. She wants nothing to do with children and has found dog friends. She learned lots of lessons from our St. Bernard, and now my standard poodle, and loves nothing more than a nice run in the woods.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Poor baby.

That body language reminds me a lot of my mom's Yorkie when she first came home to us. We had never seen anything like it. She was terrified. She wanted desperately to be picked up and reassurance but was way too afraid to be picked up, walking around trying to find somewhere 'safe'. Extreme anxiety. Actually with me just pure terror- no desire to come to me at all, though she liked my mom.

Getting down to her level and a lot of patience - not reaching for the dog but waiting for it to come to you- helped a lot. This might take many minutes before they do. We used to say we treated her like a feral cat. Ignore ignore ignore don't look at the dog, just have a great treat casually in our hands.

We also had success with providing her with lots of hiding spots (coffee tables and a crate) and Rescue remedy. She still will hide under a table if she is nervous about being caught, so she can feel safe while you hook on a leash. I had success with making her like me by feeding table scraps as I ate. She is now an accomplished beggar, the only dog I have ever had that begged, but I said at the time that I would rather a dog that begged that I could touch than one that ran in fear. I think me sitting still on a chair and the safety of the table to hide under helped too. She took a very long time to toilet train - we finally trusted her at about 4.

Taking her any where really backfired, no socialization was possible until she was more confident with us.

She remains an anxious dog, but at 5,has grown in leaps and bounds and tiny milestones with lots of patience, lots of treats, and lots of respecting her fears. She has a social life, and loves old ladies. She wants nothing to do with children and has found dog friends. She learned lots of lessons from our St. Bernard, and now my standard poodle, and loves nothing more than a nice run in the woods.
👍👍👍👍👍👍🙂🙂🙂🙂
Interesting.
 

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The vet is definitely a good place to start. If everything checks out, I would say it is very important to find and work with a dog behaviorist...someone who specializes in working with anxious dogs.
 

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When I bought him home he was extremely shy, week later he was comfortable.
His 3rd week is today and he is shy again,
Im taking him to the vet on Tuesday,
Hi,

Just checking in. I hope the vet visit went well.

I've been thinking on your mentioning that he became shy again in the third week. I hope that he's feeling more comfortable again.

It's so hard when they can't tell us.
 
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