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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

Leo (Male) will turn 20 weeks old by 4/28/2022. I'm just curious to know the ideal height and weight of a mini-poodle at this age.

Leo Measurements -
Height - 18 inches at shoulder height
Weight - 21.2 lbs
Food - Royal Canin poodle puppy kibble (3 times a day).

I can feel his rib cage and spine easily. He is so active and has no issues that I know. Thanks!

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Hello,

Leo (Male) will turn 20 weeks old by 4/28/2022. I'm just curious to know the ideal height and weight of a mini-poodle at this age.

Leo Measurements -
Height - 18 inches at shoulder height
Weight - 21.2 lbs
Food - Royal Canin poodle puppy kibble (3 times a day).

I can feel his rib cage and spine easily. He is so active and has no issues that I know.
Are you sure he’s a minipoo? Technically minipoos are from 10” to just under 15” at the withers as an adult. Standard poos are 15” or higher in the USA. To be 18” and weight over 20 lbs at 4 months is not what you would expect. If both parents were minipoos, then he’s and oversized minipoo. If one parent was a standard then he’s intervarietal.

Many puppies are really skinny and it’s easy to feel the ribs and spine. As long as he’s happy, active and your vet says healthy then that’s normal. It isn’t till their second year as they add on their mature adult muscle that they start to feel less bony.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Are you sure he’s a minipoo? Technically minipoos are from 10” to just under 15” at the withers as an adult. Standard poos are 15” or higher in the USA. To be 18” and weight over 20 lbs at 4 months is not what you would expect. If both parents were minipoos, then he’s and oversized minipoo. If one parent was a standard then he’s intervarietal.

Many puppies are really skinny and it’s easy to feel the ribs and spine. As long as he’s happy, active and your vet says healthy then that’s normal. It isn’t till their second year as they add on their mature adult muscle that they start to feel less bony.
Thanks for the quick response. this is what the breeder told me. his parents are around 14" & 15". weight around 16-17 lbs. he told me to expect the same. I was not expecting this size and weight. so now i will consider him as oversized mini. thank you!
 

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That is a big mini! It seems you might have found the elusive middle sized poodle! I am very curious where he will end up - I hope you update when he is grown.
 
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For comparison: My minipoo Hugo is oversized from two miniature parents (although his mother is 16"). He was by far the largest in his litter of 4 puppies. At 21 weeks, he was 18 pounds. He is now 15 months old and leveled out at about 18-19" (it's hard to measure a wiggly pup) and 27 pounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
For comparison: My minipoo Hugo is oversized from two miniature parents (although his mother is 16"). He was by far the largest in his litter of 4 puppies. At 21 weeks, he was 18 pounds. He is now 15 months old and leveled out at about 18-19" (it's hard to measure a wiggly pup) and 27 pounds.
@a2girl Hey, I'm feeding Leo more than the recommended qty. the vet said it is okay as long as it is in the rapid growth stage. Also, the Vet recommended getting him neutered. if we do this now, will it impact anything on his body development & growth?
 

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Elroy: Standard Poodle, Born 02/20/21
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Elroy (Standard Poodle) ate waaay more than the amount recommended on the food package throughout his entire 1st year. I don't know for what puppies those amounts apply. It sure isn't for poodle puppies!
 

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Neutering too early (before 2 years for Standards) can increase the possibilities of orthopedic issues. Current science recommends not spaying/neutering until after growth plates in bones have closed. Long bones in the legs are the governing bones. Toys, mini's, and Standard's have different timing recommendations. Not sure when that will be for your guy (mini's are less than Standards), but at minimum, not until after a year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Neutering too early (before 2 years for Standards) can increase the possibilities of orthopedic issues. Current science recommends not spaying/neutering until after growth plates in bones have closed. Long bones in the legs are the governing bones. Toys, mini's, and Standard's have different timing recommendations. Not sure when that will be for your guy (mini's are less than Standards), but at minimum, not until after a year.
sure. i will wait until he reaches his peak.
 

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I'm just curious to know the ideal height and weight of a mini-poodle at this age.
As mentioned, the breed standard for the miniature variety is 10"-15" at the shoulder. Weight is not a breed standard factor so the weight should always be a healthy weight for the height. As puppies they go thru spurts until they reach most of their eventual height. Miniatures can be finished growing in height by as early as 7m but can grow til a year or so. After they mature physically, they'll add more muscle weight too for an additional pound or three.
Rectangle Slope Plot Parallel Font




I'm feeding Leo more than the recommended qty. the vet said it is okay as long as it is in the rapid growth stage.
If you're feeding puppy food it's already got higher calories, fat, and protein to compensate for rapid growth. You can see by the chart that rapid growth is usually done between 16-24 weeks. Growth and maturation continues thru the first year which is why puppy food is generally recommended for the first year. FYI, the recommended feeding amount is based on the calorie count, and the amount is listed as if this is the only food given thru the day. Treats and snacks need to be accounted for also.
All that said, feeding extra thru the rapid growth should be ok as per your vet. Another consideration is that not all vets are as fully familiar with the correct build of a poodle vs a lab or many other breeds. Poodles should have an athletic build, and be on the slim side as adults.

This is a small breed puppy formula and may not actually be right for your pup as he's already over the 20lb projected adult weight, but you'll notice that the amount doesn't keep increasing. You should find that puppy foods in general will have higher calories, fat, and protein than the adult version.

Calorie Content (fed)(ME):
4311 kcal/kg
482 kcal/cup

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Also, the Vet recommended getting him neutered. if we do this now, will it impact anything on his body development & growth?
As also mentioned, an early neuter, before reaching maturity, slows growth plate closure and removes hormones from the system that can affect other body systems. Holding off til around a year is a good compromise. I don't mean to shake your faith in your vet but many vets are still holding onto the early spay/neuter, against the current research because of the overpopulation issue. It is good to reduce unwanted reproduction but the research is demonstrating that the health of the individual dog should be considered also. You can use Search to find recent posts discussing this topic at length.

One of our members, Pavie, has created this chart of the sizes of PF poodles. This is the miniature chart. You can see that there are a number of miniatures who've grown oversize.

Water Rectangle Slope Plot Line
 
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Leo Measurements -
Height - 18 inches at shoulder height
Weight - 21.2 lbs
That's really big for a 20 week mini poodle. The "oversized" minis on the chart are much older (Hugo was 11 months and Beau 15 months when I made the chart).

Have you met your dog's parents in person?

I know it's very common for doodles to end up much bigger or smaller than expected from their parents because of mixed breed genes. My friend's goldendoodle's parents were both around 20lbs, but he ended up a gigantic 30lbs (1.5x bigger). Not sure how common it is in poodles though.

Also, the Vet recommended getting him neutered. if we do this now, will it impact anything on his body development & growth?
Honestly, I think vets just want to earn money from the procedure... As many people have already mentioned, early neutering can increase the possibilities of orthopedic issues. It also has minimal effect on the overpopulation issue (people in Europe don't neuter their dogs, and is even illegal in some countries unless for a health reason, but they don't seem to have more of an overpopulation issue than the USA that does neuter). If you always keep an eye on your dog, how could it possibly have intercourse with another dog, regardless if it's neutered? Here's also research summarizing two meta-analysis studies (15,984 dogs in total-- so very big dataset) that found neutering is associated with increased behavioral problems: Are There Behavior Changes When Dogs Are Spayed or Neutered?
 

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I think vets just want to earn money from the procedure...
As much to the point, spay/neuter had become the cultural norm in the US, but not elsewhere in the world.
A quote from one vet and a very thoughtful article on how spay/neuter and pediatric spay/neuter became the accepted (this is not to say best interest of the individual dog) norm.

The quote
Many of the clinical choices veterinarians make are so deeply ingrained that we often practice medicine without stopping to wonder why we do things the way we do, who decided it should be done that way and whether we are potentially causing our patients harm.

Since the start of my career 40 years ago, prepubertal spay/neuter has been the norm in the United States, usually performed in dogs about 6 months of age. I was told at the time that spayed female dogs had a 90% lower incidence of mammary tumors compared with intact females. As this practice became the norm for spay surgeries, neutering at the same age followed with no real reasoning behind it. It wasn't until I became certified in canine rehabilitation 10 years ago that I became part of a discussion about the negative impact of prepubertal spay/neuter on canine conformation.

Puberty initiates a release of hormones that help close the epiphyseal plates on long bones. Absent this signal, the long bones grow beyond their intended length and interfere with the normal size and mechanical relationship between bone and joint.1 This abnormal relationship can lead to a variety of orthopedic issues, including an increased incidence of cranial cruciate rupture,2-4 hip dysplasia5 and patellar luxation.6 I can almost always predict whether a purebred dog was spayed or neutered prior to puberty based on conformational differences.

Over the past decade several other untoward health events related to juvenile spay/neuter surgery have come to light, including cancer and behavioral problems.4,7 Female golden retrievers spayed at an early age have a higher incidence of mast cell tumor, for example, and neutered male golden retrievers have a higher incidence of lymphosarcoma.4 Another study showed an increase in several types of cancer in Vizslas, including mast cell tumors, lymphoma and hemangiosarcoma.7 Interestingly, this same study also showed an increased incidence of behavioral disorders, including fear of storms. Results from another study showed up to a 38% increase in vaccine reactions in spayed and neutered dogs compared with intact dogs, but the age at which spay/neuter surgery occurred was not considered.8

Now that we know that there is a potential relationship between juvenile gonadectomy and health issues, I suspect that even more problems will be found as researchers examine different populations to compare dogs that undergo early and late spay/neuter with intact dogs.

These issues need to be considered against the backdrop of the unfortunate number of healthy and treatable animals that must be euthanized every year in this country, often due to indiscriminate breeding and a lack of resources to treat and place these animals.
Reexamining the early spay-neuter paradigm in dogs-dvm360

The thoughtful article
OPINION
Dogs Are Not Here for Our Convenience
Spaying and neutering puppies shouldn’t be standard policy — and it isn’t automatically the “responsible” choice either.

Sept. 3, 2019

Credit...Kaley McKean

By Alexandra Horowitz

Dr. Horowitz is a cognitive scientist who studies dogs.

I’ve never lived with a dog with testes or ovaries. My pups all came from shelters, whose policies have often been to desex a dog before adoption if possible. I never knew Pumpernickel as a fertile young thing or Finnegan: The Virile Version. This is by design, and the design had its desired effect. I did not need to make a choice about the future of my dogs reproductively, and I did not lament the loss of what I had never known.

“Spay-neuter,” as the policy is called, has become the automatic mantra of those concerned with the lives of dogs. It’s not hard to see why. Say you live in a city with a dog. Stepping outside for a walk on a sunny day, you encounter other dogs: smiling golden retrievers; a smattering of small furry white dogs in sweaters; barking and wagging dachshunds; black-and-white dogs of all sizes; wiggling pit mixes — maybe 100 dogs in an hour. For every one of the 100 dogs you see, 18 healthy dogs will be euthanized in the United States on that day — a mile-long queue of recently smiling, barking, wiggling but now dead dogs.

It’s our species’ fault. We molded a resourceful carnivore into an animal critically dependent on humans for survival. But while we made dogs dependent, we have not held ourselves accountable: We lose dogs, let them run unchecked, give them up when they’re a nuisance or difficult. And so there are too many dogs, and the excess must be killed.

To solve the problem of our unwillingness to keep track of our dogs, we do not address our unwillingness. To address the overpopulation of unwanted dogs, we do not address the overpopulation. Instead, we non sequitur: We take brand-new dogs and introduce them into our homes by first putting them through a surgery at 6, 4 or even 3 months of age. The professed solution, in the United States, is to spay or neuter all the new ones.

Its proponents are humane societies, shelters, veterinarians, even Bob Barker. To spay (a female dog) or neuter (a male dog) — to “fix” them — is to surgically desex them: to remove their gonads, their reproductive organs. These new, sexless puppies are at once our projections into the future and our ducking of the past: Here! we say. In the future there will be fewer unwanted dogs! As for our actions as a species in creating this problem, we are quiet.

Spay-neuter is so widely accepted in our country today that those who take exception to it are roundly chastised. Rare is the humane society or veterinary group that does not use the phrase “responsible pet owners” to describe those who desex their animals. Dog owners who have intact animals may find that efforts to be “responsible” in other ways — by socializing their dogs or by finding a doggie day care for long days at work — will be rebuffed. Intact dogs over 6 months of age are often forbidden to come to doggie day cares at all. Some city parks and dog runs similarly forbid dogs who are not desexed. For me simply to bring up the topic of desexing for discussion will be, in the eyes of some, impermissible, so sacred is the policy — and so heartfelt (and good- hearted) is the intent behind it.

But I need to bring it up. For by our widespread policies of desexing dogs, we are not just removing their gonads: we are changing their bodies, their health and their behavior — not always for the better. We are implying that dogs should be asexual, in body and mind. We are altering the future of the species, to its peril.

The phrase “spay-neuter” wasn’t often uttered until the 1970s; the surgery itself was not routinely performed before the 1930s. The first low-cost dedicated spay-neuter clinic opened in North Hollywood, Calif., in 1973, following several years of complaints about an increasing population of seemingly homeless dogs, who seemed to pose a danger, and who cost a lot to kill, once captured.

Though the A.S.P.C.A. was originally against widespread desexing, by the mid-70s they had become a leading proponent of the practice. In 1973 the organization began requiring spay-neuter before adoption. Laws now on the books in two-thirds of states require any dog adopted from animal shelters or rescue groups to be desexed. Some parts of the country, such as unincorporated Los Angeles County, have enacted mandatory spay-neuter laws for all dogs — in L.A., once they turn only four months of age.

“Population control” is usually the first explanation for the laws on the books. Laws in New York State also invoke the “great expense to the community” of impounding and destroying these strays, who are described as a health hazard and “public nuisance.” In New York City, the Mayor’s Alliance for N.Y.C.’s Animals states that desexed animals “live a longer, healthier life,” that males will be “better behaved” if they don’t have testicles, and that spaying females “helps prevent breast cancer and uterine infections.” In other words, it’s good for us, and it’s good for them.

At first glance, insofar as spay-neuter practices have been aimed at overpopulation, they appear to have been an indisputable success. The number of animals arriving at shelters has reduced appreciably since the 1970s; the number of euthanasias has plummeted, to two to four million euthanized cats and dogs annually now from estimates of more than 20 million back then.

This triumph, though, is asterisked. Specific numbers are very hard to come by, given the vagaries of reporting. A 2018 report by Andrew Rowan, then chief scientific officer of the Humane Society, and Tamara Kartal, of Humane Society International, suggests that the 1970s figure was much less, closer to 13.5 million — and cites many other societal changes as significant in lowering euthanization rates. Critically, there are now much higher rates of adoptions, better “containment” (fewer pet dogs just let loose to run around), and better identification methods, which allow for reunion of lost dogs with their owners.

Stephen Zawistowski, a former science adviser for the A.S.P.C.A., who has looked at the intake rates in the A.S.P.C.A. in New York City since it was founded in the 19th century, told me that “the largest decrease in dogs and cats coming into the city happened in the ’40s, ’50s and ’60s” — before spay-neuter became common and well before it became law. In some areas, studies have found that the opening of a subsidized spay-neuter clinic had no effect on local rates of euthanasia.

More troubling, despite the unambiguous statements made by proponents of the salutary effects of spay-neuter on dogs, a series of long-term research programs has begun to show that the effects are far more subtle — and sometimes outright damaging. Benjamin Hart, a researcher and veterinarian at the University of California, Davis, has led the biggest effort to date to see exactly what the repercussions of desexing might be, in the long term, using the database from his university’s veterinary hospital. By removing dogs’ reproductive organs, gonadectomies also remove their main source of hormones — estrogen, testosterone and progesterone — each of which has a role not just in reproduction, but systemically through the body.

The first publication by Dr. Hart and his team, in 2013, reported that desexing golden retrievers, especially before six months of age, increased their risk of serious joint diseases, four to five times over the risk intact dogs face. They have since found higher rate of joint diseases among desexed Labrador retrievers, German shepherds, Doberman pinschers, Bernese mountain dogs and St. Bernards. Risks of cancer increase multifold in spayed goldens, neutered boxers and all Bernese. Desexed dogs of all types suffer higher rates of obesity. One of the most touted claims of spay-neuter — that it increases an animal’s life span — may be tempered by the finding that with an increased life span comes an increase rate of life-taking cancers.

Not all breeds suffer more cancer or disease with desexing: small dogs and mixed breeds appear to be exempt. Desexing at later ages, too, may eliminate the increased risks of disease in some cases. Problematically, shelters like to desex at a young age — because that’s often when they have possession of the puppies.

Similarly, the oft-cited behavioral improvements of desexed dogs are questionable. Dr. Hart has reported that only one in four male dogs neutered for reasons of “aggression” shows less of the behavior after the surgery; the same holds for rates of mounting and excessive urine-marking. In females, there is even some evidence of an increase in aggressive behaviors if they are spayed before the age of 1.

I see our policies in the United States as revealing a lot about us — and what it reveals isn’t pretty. For one thing, we value convenience, and desexing a dog is convenient for us. Menses is messy: a female dog may urinate in the house and will spread bloody vaginal discharge where she rests and walks; her heat lasts for a few weeks. Even more, we have become skittish about dog sex, when we consider dogs our family members, or even our children. The mere act of mounting or humping is seen as horrifyingly rude, and given its own section in training books (despite the fact that it’s perfectly normal behavior in a dog’s toolbox, especially during social play). We’re happy to ignore the question of whether dogs want to have sex: The question is more likely to induce guffaws than an actual discussion — despite the fact that, as animals like us, many surely do.

There are alternative ways to treat our animals. Should we be committed to sterilization, there are nonsurgical options. Injectable sterilants are on the market internationally — including one in the United States — and many are in development. Vasectomy and tubal ligation are options that would reduce birthrates, while keeping hormones intact. These surgeries are, alas, done much less often by your local vet than the routine spay-neuter.

We could also change the culture of ownership. In Europe, desexing has not been routine. Until recently, it was illegal to desex a dog in Norway. Only 7 percent of Swedish dogs are desexed (compared with more than 80 percent in the United States). Switzerland has a clause in its Animal Protection Act honoring the “dignity of the animal,” and forbidding any pain, suffering or harm, such as would be incurred by desexing. Yet none of these countries has a problem with excessive stray dogs.

The Norwegian dog trainer Anne-Lill Kvam told me that stray dogs are “not a problem” because “everyone takes care” of their dogs. They keep their animals close, attend to them and train them not to behave in such a way that would lead to unwanted animals. As a Norwegian animal-welfare official was quoted as saying, “Neutering can never be a substitute for proper training of a dog.”

With the call to spay-neuter, we are unwittingly changing dogs. Consider who gets desexed: primarily shelter dogs, largely mixed-breeds. Even where there are mandatory spay-neuter laws, “competition dogs” or any purebred dog registered with a dog club, are exempt from the law. Commercial breeders of purebred dogs — a process of inbreeding — can make more dogs with impunity. Adopt from a shelter, and you cannot.

A recent paper observes that widespread desexing practices “undermine” the healthy evolution of the species by excluding so many genetically sound dogs from the future dog gene pool. Should spay-neuter be universally successful, what we’ll have done is not curb unwanted populations. We will have inadvertently redesigned dogs. The truly mixed breed dog would be extinct.

It should not be the shelter worker’s duty to shoulder all of overpopulation for society, and it is not the dog’s duty to be desexed to save her species. It is our duty. As the authors of dogs, as the ones who shepherded them from ancient proto-wolves into our villages and homes, who sculpted bizarrely small-nosed, short-legged, furry-faced dogs out of the well-adapted wolf, we must find a way for them whereby they do not lose their animalness.

Nor should an owner’s responsibility to dogs be discharged by having a desexed pet (whose surgery came before ownership). We ought to prioritize the complexities of managing thoughtful ownership — of learning the dog’s behavior and communicative signals, to understand her more clearly; of appreciating the monetary investment and time demands of living with a dog; of appreciating the complexities of letting a dog impregnate or become pregnant.

Today, one can get away with abandoning a dog for any reason: for behavior that the owner deems “misbehavior” — be it soiling the house (needing to pee), barking (communicating) or destroying possessions (attempting to relieve boredom). We can return a dog to the shelter simply because he’s “too much trouble” or no longer a cute puppy. As a society, we are endorsing the idea that dogs come without complicated needs and messy bodily functions — because after all, that was “fixed.”

But we are the ones who need fixing.

Opinion | Dogs Are Not Here for Our Convenience - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
That's really big for a 20 week mini poodle. The "oversized" minis on the chart are much older (Hugo was 11 months and Beau 15 months when I made the chart).

Have you met your dog's parents in person?

I know it's very common for doodles to end up much bigger or smaller than expected from their parents because of mixed breed genes. My friend's goldendoodle's parents were both around 20lbs, but he ended up a gigantic 30lbs (1.5x bigger). Not sure how common it is in poodles though.


Honestly, I think vets just want to earn money from the procedure... As many people have already mentioned, early neutering can increase the possibilities of orthopedic issues. It also has minimal effect on the overpopulation issue (people in Europe don't neuter their dogs, and is even illegal in some countries unless for a health reason, but they don't seem to have more of an overpopulation issue than the USA that does neuter). If you always keep an eye on your dog, how could it possibly have intercourse with another dog, regardless if it's neutered? Here's also research summarizing two meta-analysis studies (15,984 dogs in total-- so very big dataset) that found neutering is associated with increased behavioral problems: Are There Behavior Changes When Dogs Are Spayed or Neutered?
Hello @Pavie

i met Leo parents in-person and both around 15-17 lbs. he is well know breeder in my area. as he said that Leo is one big puppy in his litter, that is why no one showed interest on him as first pick. i got the opportunity and i choose him. i met his parents like 3 times and his appearence is more like his mom. sometimes i too doubt the same ( he might be a doodle). As breeder claimed that he not in doodle business and also he is more into small poodle mix (shitz, maltese, yorike & non of these will cross 20 lbs), so i convinced that Leo is a oversized Mini-poodle.

if these thoughts still continues...i will plan to make a DNA test for Leo to figure out what exactly he is.

Any suggestions on DNA test ?

Thanks for your response.
 

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Short notice but Embark is selling their tests for less than the usual price, until tomorrow, 5-2. You can order either the Breed + Health kit Embark Breed + Health Kit – Embark Vet
or the Purebred kit DNA Test for Purebred Dogs – Embark Vet for $139.00 today.
Use code DNAYAY for up to $60 off plus free shipping. Sale ends 5/2.
It's worth it to get the DNA health testing along with breed ID.

The primary differences are that the Purebred kit will give poodle health specific results along with the general population health results and they show other DNA relatives who've been tested.
The Breed + Health kit will still give a breed breakdown and show where the different breeds (if any) show in the last 3 generations in generational tree. You may not have the relative match.

They seem to have changed the listings of what's included in each, so I can't say for sure.

Another member recommends the Wisdom Panel kits. Her experience was that the breed ID was more accurate on the first run. I'd choose the Premium, to get the health testing too.
Wisdom Panel™ Premium dog DNA test | Most accurate breed detection

These sales with a bit more off the price than usual seem to come around a couple of times a year.
 

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Hello @Pavie

i met Leo parents in-person and both around 15-17 lbs. he is well know breeder in my area. as he said that Leo is one big puppy in his litter, that is why no one showed interest on him as first pick. i got the opportunity and i choose him. i met his parents like 3 times and his appearence is more like his mom. sometimes i too doubt the same ( he might be a doodle). As breeder claimed that he not in doodle business and also he is more into small poodle mix (shitz, maltese, yorike & non of these will cross 20 lbs), so i convinced that Leo is a oversized Mini-poodle.

if these thoughts still continues...i will plan to make a DNA test for Leo to figure out what exactly he is.

Any suggestions on DNA test ?

Thanks for your response.
Makes sense for a big puppy in the litter to turn out big. I really like the size in between mini and standard (sometimes known as moyen) 🤩.

I haven't done a genetic test on my dog yet, but like Pose and Poos said, Embark and Wisdom Panel are the best ones I know of.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hello,

Leo (Male) will turn 20 weeks old by 4/28/2022. I'm just curious to know the ideal height and weight of a mini-poodle at this age.

Leo Measurements -
Height - 18 inches at shoulder height
Weight - 21.2 lbs
Food - Royal Canin poodle puppy kibble (3 times a day).

I can feel his rib cage and spine easily. He is so active and has no issues that I know. Thanks!

View attachment 491732
A Quick update on Leo's height & Weight. In my previous post, I mentioned the wrong age.

Leo Measurements -
Age - 5 months 2 Days
Height - 19 inches at shoulder height
Weight - 24.6 lbs
Food - Royal Canin poodle puppy kibble (3 times a day).

Breeder showed me all the pictures of that litter (current pics) and all puppies are under the radar. he is very much surprised to see him like this. sometimes i feel like he is a Mini poodle X Lab. it is just my opinion.

Here are some of his current pics
Glasses Dog Water dog Goggles Chair
Glasses Dog Water dog Carnivore Dog breed
Dog Water dog Carnivore Dog breed Companion dog


Leo meeting Maltipoo (2 year old)
 

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He is such a cute boy. :love: I agree he doesn’t really look like a purebred miniature poodle, but it’s hard to see what’s going on under the fluff.

If anything, he looks like a standard poodle to me, with those long muppety legs and big paws. Here’s Peggy at 5 months:

Dog Carnivore Dog breed Flooring Floor

Dog Plant Dog breed Carnivore Flowerpot


But his tail is docked way shorter than is normal for a poodle. If he is a poodle, I wonder why the breeder did that. Do you have photos of his dam and sire? I’d love to see! And will you be doing a DNA test?
 
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