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I do have to say to everyone that many dog owners do not seem to know the difference between 'play' and 'aggression'. I was one of these owners when my beloved spoo was a pup. I was terrified whenever a dog came up bouncing all over and pounced on him. I overreacted. I dragged him away, I left the dog park and swore at other dog owners. I had no idea that most times it was just play.
But even play can be unwanted by another dog. This is the most common scenario I see at my dog park. Some dogs are clueless at reading other dogs' body language. And the owners are just as clueless and say, it's okay, it's just play (I'm quite positive YOU can read body language, kontiki, but I'm talking about the people at my park). Well, rough play can be too much for some dogs. I am not be okay with any dog pouncing on my dogs. It is rude canine behavior. Dogs need to know how to enter play without being obnoxious or intimidating. If they don't, they have no business at a dog park.

I've been thinking about doing a video training series on this topic.
 

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But even play can be unwanted by another dog. This is the most common scenario I see at my dog park. Some dogs are clueless at reading other dogs' body language. And the owners are just as clueless and say, it's okay, it's just play (I'm quite positive YOU can read body language, kontiki, but I'm talking about the people at my park). Well, rough play can be too much for some dogs. I am not be okay with any dog pouncing on my dogs. It is rude canine behavior. Dogs need to know how to enter play without being obnoxious or intimidating. If they don't, they have no business at a dog park.

I've been thinking about doing a video training series on this topic.
I agree MaizeFrosty, about both clueless dogs, and clueless owners, and that rough play is too much for some dogs (and owners).

Also I will add that many dogs have been taken from their mothers too early and never learned the body language they need, and indeed are clueless! Both the pouncers, and the ones being pounced upon!

And many new puppy owners (if not most) have not appropriately socialized their dogs.

As I wanted to train my Spoo to be a service dog I introduced him to 40 different dogs before he was 16 weeks old, as well as 40 different people of all races/ages/with and without hats, etc., plus horses, chickens, etc. It was a LOT of work, but I will do it again, even if it is not for a Service Dog. It makes an amazing difference.
 

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"As I wanted to train my Spoo to be a service dog I introduced him to 40 different dogs before he was 16 weeks old, as well as 40 different people of all races/ages/with and without hats, etc., plus horses, chickens, etc. It was a LOT of work, but I will do it again, even if it is not for a Service Dog. It makes an amazing difference."

Yes I should have kept up with more of this! When Renn was young 9-10 weeks old he was really hard to handle in such situations, he would jump pounce, and bark. I should have kept it up but didn't as I think I was embarrassed of his behavior but he really just wanted to play with everyone and barked because he could not get to them. People with small children were afraid of him and said you have an aggressive puppy. He really wasn't aggressive. But he was different from any puppy I ever trained before. I think poodles (he is my first) are just more playful and bouncy when young and really need that integration. So he has been something else ...but now as he approaches 2 he is so much better and I followed much of the advise given here on the forum. What also amazes me is some come here briefly ask for advise and then say no thats not what he is doing. I listen and try new ideas, some work some don't but it doesn't hurt to try.
 

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As a lifelong dog owner of breeds of all kinds from 6 pounds to 160 pounds I have to say one of the most brilliant things about Poodles is that they are actually incredibly adaptable, which is a great thing, BUT there is another side to that coin. Poodles more than any other breed I know will reflect the attitude and mood of their owners. In my case since we as a household are loud and more than just a tad hysterical - so is our dog. He is overly dramatic and vocal. I am 100% convinced if he were in another household he would be somewhat less of a drama queen and quieter. So this is my observation after reading this whole unfortunate thread... Be the person you want your Poodle to be - or at least be honest about your personality and attitude and don't blame your Poodle for your own shortcomings - they are smarter than you (most of the time).
 

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....... So this is my observation after reading this whole unfortunate thread... Be the person you want your Poodle to be - or at least be honest about your personality and attitude and don't blame your Poodle for your own shortcomings - they are smarter than you (most of the time).
Moni! You made me laugh!
 

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My Latte is now 7 yo, but at the age of your dog 1-2 yrs, if he was off leash in the doggy park, He would try to make various dogs submit to him. Sometimes labradors and grand schnauzers. He never really bit the other dogs or harmed them in any way he just was trying to show his superiority. I am thankful that the other owners understood this behavior in a young male dog. At age 2 it just disappeared one day. By putting him on leash he will be more reserved if he is leashed trained correctly. I like to think that Latte expects me to take care of his safety when he's on leash but when he's off leash he is responsible. He has had 3 encounters with wild coyotes And he has successfully submitted all 3 without injury. I don't recommend you try this I was very scared the 1st time it happened I thought I had lost my dog. He has only been injured once and it was a very traumatic experience When he was attacked by another domestic breed.
 

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But even play can be unwanted by another dog. This is the most common scenario I see at my dog park. Some dogs are clueless at reading other dogs' body language. And the owners are just as clueless and say, it's okay, it's just play (I'm quite positive YOU can read body language, kontiki, but I'm talking about the people at my park). Well, rough play can be too much for some dogs. I am not be okay with any dog pouncing on my dogs. It is rude canine behavior. Dogs need to know how to enter play without being obnoxious or intimidating. If they don't, they have no business at a dog park.

I've been thinking about doing a video training series on this topic.


You are so right. I saw this all the time to the point of starting to growl internally myself. Clueless humans saying, "it's okay he just wants to play" & it's like a one dog, one human wrecking machine.

There are also a good many puppies who aren't taught proper behavior by the adult dogs in their foundation. I've see it & trained dogs suffering from puppy bully syndrome who are never allowed to have an adult dog correct them. I won't buy a puppy from a breeder who doesn't allow their adults to coral a naughty puppy. When I met Mr. Layne's breeder, she told me up front, "Don't worry about him with your girls. He understands the rules in a pack & he knows what it is to get corrected." And it shows when he interacts with our dogs. When this step is missed at a very young age, it can be really bad. It's most obvious in dogs who are bottle raised & are maybe a single pup in a litter. It's also quite sad to see.


I love that someone mentions the dog being a reflection of the handler. I needed that printed on a t-shirt. Honestly, dogs read us so well & reflect us so well & most humans are so bad at reading them. We are slow by our very nature we are slow. That's not an individual. People were probably once much better because we lived more in the natural world. We were likely far better at reading body language & acting on it. But in modern times, not so much. So the dogs tattle on us by reflecting us.
 

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You are so right. I saw this all the time to the point of starting to growl internally myself. Clueless humans saying, "it's okay he just wants to play" & it's like a one dog, one human wrecking machine.

There are also a good many puppies who aren't taught proper behavior by the adult dogs in their foundation. I've see it & trained dogs suffering from puppy bully syndrome who are never allowed to have an adult dog correct them. I won't buy a puppy from a breeder who doesn't allow their adults to coral a naughty puppy. When I met Mr. Layne's breeder, she told me up front, "Don't worry about him with your girls. He understands the rules in a pack & he knows what it is to get corrected." And it shows when he interacts with our dogs. When this step is missed at a very young age, it can be really bad. It's most obvious in dogs who are bottle raised & are maybe a single pup in a litter. It's also quite sad to see.


I love that someone mentions the dog being a reflection of the handler. I needed that printed on a t-shirt. Honestly, dogs read us so well & reflect us so well & most humans are so bad at reading them. We are slow by our very nature we are slow. That's not an individual. People were probably once much better because we lived more in the natural world. We were likely far better at reading body language & acting on it. But in modern times, not so much. So the dogs tattle on us by reflecting us.
Great post! Completely agree with your points :thumb:
 

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Recently I was at the park and it was just Misha playing with a slightly younger lab puppy. They were having a wonderful time. Then a family with a middle aged little white dog (maltese or maltipoo?) came and sat at a picnic table. When the two puppies bounded over, the white dog was clearly very shy and uncomfortable so I called Misha away and he left her alone. It happened again a bit later and I again called him off since it was clear the white dog did not want to play. Then the owner of the little white dog picked her up and carried her over to where the two puppies were romping and plopped her down and prodded her saying "go play with them!" before walking away and I was horrified. The dog was clearly very upset. I couldn't believe the owner had such poor understanding of her dog. :argh:
 

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Then the owner of the little white dog picked her up and carried her over to where the two puppies were romping and plopped her down and prodded her saying "go play with them!" before walking away and I was horrified. The dog was clearly very upset. I couldn't believe the owner had such poor understanding of her dog. :argh:
Next time, please consider speaking up on behalf of the poor dog who doesn't have a voice. I try to educate anyone who is clueless. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but it's always worth trying.
 

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Absolutely agree about educating the owner! Otherwise they will keep doing it.

I have also noticed new puppy owners, and often new rescue owners, who have obviously never had a dog before trying to refuse to let their dog sniff another dogs rear and instead force them to go face to face. Another good place for education.
 
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