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Poodle Health Discuss Poodle health and important health testing for common poodle diseases.

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Old 05-12-2017, 12:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Shots after 1 year?

Hugo is coming up on his first birthday, that being said I think he is supposed to be vaccinated annually.. do we go around his birthday or when he got his last shots? Also what shots are typically given then?

I know some people say they are not necessarily and others say it is.

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Old 05-12-2017, 12:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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One year from his last puppy shots (5-way and rabies, but space them out by a few weeks). Then titer test three years later for parvo/distemper, and follow your local rabies law if you need to (here it is every 3 years). The only other vaccination I have mine get is bordetella because they do training classes and are going in for boarding. I don't think the vaccine is very effective, though, so I would not choose to have them get it.

This is just my personal opinion and what I'm doing for my dogs.
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The vet you went to may have a recommended date. I know my old vet used to list the dogs' vaccines on every invoice along with the date it was given and the recommended date for the next round. You should be able to contact them and ask just for vaccine records - vets usually have a way to do that because boarding and classes and things will ask for it.

My guys are on a 3-year schedule for DHPP and Rabies, and they get Bordatella annually (because they do boarding/petsitting/classes that require it). They've also gotten the Leptospirosis vaccine, but I'll have to do some research to see if the risk is high enough around here to give them that again this year.

For my younger dog Cleo who's just over a year old, we did a 3 year rabies shot about one year after she got the first shot (not on her birthday), and she hasn't gotten a booster on the others yet because we were spacing it out at the vet's recommendation and haven't gone back in yet. I'll probably squeeze that in this weekend.
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Old 05-12-2017, 01:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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As lisasgirl said, check and see if there was a recommended date and if not go 12 mos from Hugo's last shots.

My dogs are now on a mostly bi-annual schedule; this is what our current vet suggests and is their common practice. One year the dogs get a DHPP shot and the other year they get their rabies vaccine. Curiously, I asked about tittering and they said it would cost a few hundred dollars and that they don't really normally do it but they would if I really wanted it done. My previous vet used to vaccinate DHPP and rabies every year, so we are moving in the right direction with biannual vaccines. The vet before that offered a 3 year rabies vaccine, but did DHPP and Lepto annually.

Lepto is still given every year - our current vet believes the risk is significant enough in our area that it is deemed a part of their "core" vaccines. We live in the country and hubs is a farmer and the dogs go with him, so there are lots of mice, raccoons, opossums, skunks and cattle around (animals at risk of carrying/transmitting Lepto), so I have decided to go with it.

I used to get bordetella for my older dog since he had an incidence of it as a puppy, but I discontinued that maybe 3 years ago based on reduced risk factors (no longer going to training classes, moved to the country in a low dog traffic area, seldom trips to the dog park and has never been boarded). This and lyme vaccines are what our vet calls "lifestyle" vaccines.

Vaccination protocols vary immensely from vet to vet and person to person. Good luck deciding your approach
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Old 05-12-2017, 02:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I just received positive titer results for both dogs for rabies, distemper, and parvo. They received oral bordatella (it has been vaccine or nasal in the past) for boarding. The breeder recommends the low vaccine protocol and is okay with titering. This is my spoo's first titer, this was done a year after his last vaccine, but my beagle-X has been for years.
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Old 05-13-2017, 06:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Please read this:

http://www.drpitcairn.com/lectures-a...k-at-vaccines/

And this:

Vaccines - Whole Pet Vet
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Old 05-13-2017, 06:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I am an immunologist with a Ph.D from an Ivy League University. One of the most important things I talk about in my teaching is how to separate myth from evidence based science in making decisions regarding immunization. It is important to understand that while there are small risks from any immunization the public health benefits to maintaining high rates of immunizations in populations of people and animals are much greater. This is a principle of public health called herd immunity where we can expect potentially epidemic diseases to remain sporadic even if not all members of a population have been vaccinated. To maintain herd immunity for most diseases 90% of a population does have to have protective immunity through immunization or based on serological evidence (titering). While I tend to agree that many vets are very strongly stuck on thinking the only way to maintain herd immunity is through annual boosters, I also think that we need to remember what the world was like before effective vaccine based control of rabies, measles and a host of other dangerous diseases was achieved. When Louis Pasteur first achieved protection of people against rabies through immunization people from all over appeared at his door hoping to be spared the horrible death they were facing because they had been bitten by feral rabid dogs. Louis Pasteur and Rabies: a brief note | Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery & Psychiatry

For a balanced scientific perspective please read here. Veterinary Vaccines-Fact and Fiction | The SkeptVet
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Ronald Schultz, MS, PhD, ACVM
Dr. Schultz, chair of the Department of Pathobiological Sciences at School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin-Madison, is one of the world's leading experts on veterinary vaccines, virology and immunology. In addition to his work with the Maddie's® Laboratory for Diagnosis and Prevention of Shelter Diseases at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, Dr. Schultz was the first president of the American Association of Veterinary Immunologists and received the first Distinguished Veterinary Immunologist Award and is a member of the AVMA Feline Vaccine Associated Sarcoma Task Force. Currently, he is a member of the American Animal Hospital Associations' Canine Vaccine Task Force, the American Association of Feline Practitioners' Feline Vaccine Task Force, and the Veterinary Vaccine Group of the World Small Animal Veterinary Association.Saving Lives with Antibody Titer Tests






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Titer Testing Laboratory
History of the Laboratory
The Companion Animal Vaccine and Immuno Diagnostic Service Laboratory (CAVIDS Lab) was founded by Ronald D Schultz, PhD, Emeritus Professor and founding Chairman of the Department of Pathobiological Sciences at the University of Wisconsin-Madison School of Veterinary Medicine. Dr. Schultz served as a professor of Veterinary Immunology from 1973 until his retirement in 2016. He was the first president of the American Association of Veterinary Immunologists and is an honorary diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Microbiologists. He received the Distinguished Veterinary Immunologist Award in 1988. Dr. Schultz has served on the Vaccine Task Forces of the American Animal Hospital Association, the American Association of Feline Practitioners, and the World Small Animal Veterinary Association. He has authored many publications, including the textbook Veterinary Immunology – Principles and Practice with Michael Day. Dr. Schultz lectures about canine and feline vaccination principles to breed associations, veterinary groups, and pet lovers around the world. He has trained more than 50 graduate students and post-doctoral fellows and has taught generations of veterinary students.https://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/lab/schultz/personnel/
Quote:
Schultz: Dog vaccines may not be necessary

Schultz: Dog vaccines may not be necessary
March 14, 2003
Once a year, Ronald Schultz checks the antibody levels in his dogs’ blood. Why? He says for proof that most annual vaccines are unnecessary.

Schultz, professor and chair of pathobiological sciences at School of Veterinary Medicine, has been studying the effectiveness of canine vaccines since the 1970s; he’s learned that immunity can last as long as a dog’s lifetime, which suggests that our “best friends” are being over-vaccinated.

Based on his findings, a community of canine vaccine experts has developed new veterinary recommendations that could eliminate a dog’s need for annual shots. The guidelines appear in the March/April issue of Trends, the journal of the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA).

Every year, when we take our dogs to the veterinarian’s office, they could receive up to 16 different vaccines, many of which are combined into a single shot. Four of these products protect against life-threatening diseases, including rabies, canine parvovirus type 2 (CPV-2), canine distemper virus (CDV) and canine adenovirus type 2 (CAV-2); the rest protect against milder diseases to which only some dogs are exposed, including Lyme disease.

But, as many veterinarians are realizing, over-vaccination can actually jeopardize a dog’s health and even life. Side effects can cause skin problems, allergic reactions and autoimmune disease. Though the case in cats, not dogs, tumors have been reported at the site of vaccine injections.

“These adverse reactions have caused many veterinarians to rethink the issue of vaccination,” says Schultz. “The idea that unnecessary vaccines can cause serious side effects is in direct conflict with sound medical practices.”

For 30 years, Schultz has been examining the need to vaccinate animals so often and for so many diseases. “In the 1970s, I started thinking about our immune response to pathogens and how similar it is in other animals,” says Schultz. “That’s when I started to question veterinary vaccination practices.”

Just like ours, a canine’s immune system fires up when a pathogen, like a virus, enters the body. The pathogen releases a protein called an antigen, which calls into action the immune system’s special disease-fighting cells. Called B and T lymphocytes, these cells not only destroy the virus, but they remember what it looked like so they can fend it off in the future.

It’s this immunological memory that enables vaccines, which purposely contain live, weakened or dead pathogens, to protect against future disease.

But, as Schultz points out, vaccines can keep people immune for a lifetime: we’re usually inoculated for measles, mumps and rubella as children but never as adults. So, can dogs be vaccinated as pups and then never again?

While evidence from Schultz’s studies on both his own dogs and many other dogs from controlled studies suggests the answer is yes, Schultz recommends a more conservative plan based on duration of immunity and individual risk.

Schultz says that core vaccines, or the ones that protect against life-threatening disease, are essential for all dogs, yet he does not recommend dogs receive these shots yearly. “With the exception of rabies, the vaccines for CDV, CPV-2 and CAV trigger an immunological memory of at least seven years,” he explains. (Studies testing the duration of immunity for rabies shots show it lasts about three years.)

For these reasons, Schultz suggests that dogs receive rabies shots every three years (as is required by law in most states) and the other core vaccines no more frequently than every three years.

Some non-core vaccines, on the other hand, have a much shorter duration of immunity, lasting around one year. But, as Schultz points out, not every dog should get these types of vaccines, because not every dog is at risk for exposure.

Today, many vaccinated dogs receive a shot for Lyme disease. However, Schultz says that the ticks carrying the Lyme disease pathogen can be found in only a few regions of the United States. More importantly, Schultz adds, “The vaccine can cause adverse effects such as mild arthritis, allergy or other immune diseases. Like all vaccines, it should only be used when the animal is at significant risk.” He notes that the Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital at the UW–Madison School of Veterinary Medicine rarely administers the Lyme disease vaccine.

Another common vaccine that Schultz says is unnecessary protects against “kennel cough,” an often mild and transient disease contracted during boarding or dog shows. “Most pet dogs that do not live in breeding kennels, are not boarded, do not go to dog shows and have only occasional contact with dogs outside their immediate family,” Schultz recommends, “rarely need to be vaccinated or re-vaccinated for kennel cough.”

Schultz says that it’s important for veterinarians to recognize an individual dog’s risk for developing a particular disease when considering the benefits of a vaccine. “Vaccines have many exceptional benefits, but, like any drug, they also have the potential to cause significant harm.” Giving a vaccine that’s not needed, he explains, creates an unnecessary risk to the animal.

Recommending that dogs receive fewer vaccines, Schultz admits, may spark controversy, especially when veterinarians rely on annual vaccines to bring in clients, along with income.

But, as he mentions, annual visits are important for many reasons other than shots.

“Checking for heartworm, tumors, dermatological problems and tooth decay should be done on a yearly basis,” he says. “Plus, some dogs, depending on their risk, may need certain vaccines annually.” Rather than vaccinating on each visit, veterinarians can use a recently developed test which checks dogs’ immunity against certain diseases.

Schultz adds that veterinarians who have switched to the three-year, instead of annual, vaccination program have found no increase in the number of dogs with vaccine-preventable diseases.

“Everyday, more and more people in the profession are embracing the change,” notes Schultz. And, that the new vaccination guidelines supported by the AAHA, along with the task force members representing the American Colleges of Veterinary Internal Medicine, Veterinary Microbiology and the American Association of Veterinary Immunologists, is evidence of just that.
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dina View Post
Hugo is coming up on his first birthday, that being said I think he is supposed to be vaccinated annually.. do we go around his birthday or when he got his last shots? Also what shots are typically given then?

I know some people say they are not necessarily and others say it is.

Thanks!

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I would not vaccinate my dogs annually or indiscriminately. There is plenty of science that annual shots are not necessary. And that titers, as some members here have mentioned are a great way to check if your dog is indeed immune without over-vaccinating. If there is immunity, it is not only unnecessary to re-vaccinate, but harmful.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:32 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Titering is a viable and useful part of determining an appropriate immunization schedule for both dogs and for people. However if the titering is not done and immunity is no longer effective then there will be gaps in the protection of the herd. I was titered for my immunity to measles and other vaccine preventable diseases when I started graduate school at the age of 21. I had been fully and appropriately vaccinated for those diseases against which I could be protected in childhood. Yet I was not immune to either measles or rubella based on titering at the start of graduate school. I was happy to be reboosted at that time. We have seen this type of waned immunity in young adults recently with pertussis https://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/surv-reporting.html (along with measles, rubella and diphtheria) in students on college campuses where proof of immunity to MMR is required in New York and other states. Preventable diseases have also occurred in home schooled children of "anti-vaxxers." Right now there is a measles outbreak in Minnesota that is largely attributable to failure of herd immunity with low numbers of the very young children who have been sickened and other children in their community not having been immunized based on erroneous fears of autism risks. Anti-Vaccine Groups Fuel Fears In Minnesota's Measles Outbreak : Shots - Health News : NPR

Many people are under immunized and leave gaps in our public health protections as a result. Here is a link to the US Department of Health and Human Services recommended adult immunization schedule. https://www.vaccines.gov/who_and_when/adults/ How many of us are fully immunized according to this schedule? Even I am behind as regards tetanus/diphtheria and I am now in the range for things like the shingles vaccine which I will get when we return from our vacation. While I regard freedom to choose one's own health care as an important civil liberty the failure to maintain appropriate levels of immunization that protect public health is not a place where I think it is wise to go it alone. Working with your physician and veterinarian to make sound and evidence based decisions (whether it be a standard vs. minimal vaccine schedule, boosting based on titering or other protections) is important in preventing the return of dangerous infectious diseases.
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