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Old 03-26-2015, 08:52 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countryboy View Post
But I seem to have noticed that most 'real' service dogs have vests that look way more utilitarian/plain than the red or yellow or bright colours that I see in pet stores. With functioning service dogs, owner-trained or not, I suppose the user is more concerned with grip, handling, durability, ease of cleaning. Style and colour would fall further down the list of must-haves.

So I'd be wary of bright yellow vests with pink cowboy hats! lol
Despite what you might think, you actually can't judge a service dog by what it's wearing. While many service dog handlers prefer to dress their dog plainly, some see their dog as a way to express themselves. I know of service dog teams who have harry potter patches on their vest, and others who dress their dog in hot pink. Believe it or not, the pic I attached is of a real seizure alert dog. Now, I don't agree with the decision to bring such attention to your service dog, but it's every handler's right to do so.
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Old 03-26-2015, 06:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Totally agree looking at Jazz in her bright Yellow butterfly vest, or thinking of the tie dyed Poodle that one person works, or Bruce the painted Doberman or Muppet with her Animal patches or Gatsby in his matching Tardis vest and collar.
For many of us our dogs outfits are an extension of our likes and style so while many will have plain, drab utilitarian vests just as many will have carefully chosen colors and designs that the handlers think will make their dogs look great. Cost, FIT, durability are all important but so is a chance to express our own personalities.
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Old 03-27-2015, 01:20 AM   #23 (permalink)
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That's the sad part - that we would be suspicious of a real service animal. Some of us get annoyed it a stranger asks, "Is that a full-blooded French Poodle?" I can imagine the outrageous, invasive comments service handlers could get thanks to the frauds. Now my flying nightmare is to be jammed in an aisle with an ESA pot bellied pig, real or fake!
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Old 03-27-2015, 05:42 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I don't have a service dog, but if I did, you can bet it would have vests to match what I wore. I'm just like that...I couldn't handle it if we didn't match. Hans has plenty of harnesses and collars to choose from as it is, so I totally get that.

I do wonder, though, if all of the publicity about fake service dogs is making people quicker to assume that legitimate service dogs are fakes. I personally wouldn't ask someone about their dog...it is up to the business if there is a problem IMO. I mean, I don't go up to people and ask if they really need that wheelchair....

I'm not sure more regulation is the answer, either. It seems like at least where I live the biggest problem is that businesses don't understand how the current law works, and the differences between a service dog and an ESA. As it is now, at least here in the US, a disruptive dog can be asked to leave anyway, so there is some protection for businesses, if they understand the law. And if poorly behaved dogs were consistently asked to leave, then perhaps people would stop bringing their poorly behaved dogs places. If the dog is acting like a real service dog, then it shouldn't be a problem anyway. I get that people can be allergic, but I'm super allergic to cats. If you have a cat and stand near me I can tell because that is enough to trigger my allergies. But I don't go around suggesting that people who own cats shouldn't be allowed places because of my allergies.

I have an aqcuantiance that owns a restaurant, and she just posted a huge rant on Facebook about service dogs...apparently someone came to her restaurant with (of all things) a Spoo service dog. She was sure the dog was a faker, since it wasn't a breed that she imagined could be used as a service dog. She was convinced that service dogs for anxiety, PTSD, etc, were ESAs, because those were "emotional conditions." She was not getting that the difference was dogs trained to perform tasks vs. not trained to perform any tasks.

The thing about more regulation that concerns me is that I would hate to see someone who needs a service dog be unable to get one, or get their dog certified, because of some regulatory hoops they have to jump through. Most of my family is military or retired military, and through them I've met a few veterans with PTSD service dogs. Those dogs are literally life savers for those guys. And if anyone in my family was going through that, I would want them to have the option of having a dog.

One thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the photo of the Facebook post with the pit. I know a lot of folks on this forum hate pit bulls, but I've met a legitimate pit bull service dog, and she was a very well trained and behaved girl and she provides a real service for her owner. Plus, I don't see how being 80 and drunk automatically means that someone couldn't have PTSD...anyone can end up with PTSD, not just soldiers, and there are plenty of older Vietnam veterans that still struggle. I have no clue wether that dog in the photo was legitimate or not, but the tone of the post bothered me.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:27 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Its maybe important to remember that I don't use a service dog. This is an issue that affects only those who need and use one. And you can bet your bippy that I'm on your side... not the side of the scammers.

Now I understand that photos of service dogs that I've seen, in utilitarian looking vests, are not always the norm. Thanks

But maybe now I'll step back and see what people actually involved in the situation will do about this issue.
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Old 03-28-2015, 12:10 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Countryboy I can totally understand your confusion when CCI gets worldwide coverage with articles like this one: Advocates Fight against fake service dogs

A nice rebuttal article that will sadly see only limited distribution is this one "There Are No Fake Vests"

The fact of the matter is that for reasons only know to themselves CCI and ADI have been pushing the "fake service dog" as a major issue but at the same time nearly every article about fakes talks about how easy it is to fake and basically are a how to fake a service dog. Sigh In my area fakes are not a problem and I would never even know they exist EXECPT for the Internet. Many folks say they don't have major problems but the ones that do are not surprisingly those who live near a major program... and some of them are more concerned about the under trained program dogs being released then any "fake service dogs". In my area again it is not the fakes that are a problem but those under trained program dogs that are turned loose with a handler who has little to no idea how to keep them under control. It is really sad when I am repeatedly told my little owner trained girl is the best behaved service dog they have seen... we have 4 major programs close to us including one in my city. And I can still count on both hands how many other handlers I have run into while out and about (most of those have been at the VA)
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:21 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default fakes and more

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireStorm View Post
I don't have a service dog, but if I did, you can bet it would have vests to match what I wore. I'm just like that...I couldn't handle it if we didn't match. Hans has plenty of harnesses and collars to choose from as it is, so I totally get that.

I do wonder, though, if all of the publicity about fake service dogs is making people quicker to assume that legitimate service dogs are fakes. I personally wouldn't ask someone about their dog...it is up to the business if there is a problem IMO. I mean, I don't go up to people and ask if they really need that wheelchair....

I'm not sure more regulation is the answer, either. It seems like at least where I live the biggest problem is that businesses don't understand how the current law works, and the differences between a service dog and an ESA. As it is now, at least here in the US, a disruptive dog can be asked to leave anyway, so there is some protection for businesses, if they understand the law. And if poorly behaved dogs were consistently asked to leave, then perhaps people would stop bringing their poorly behaved dogs places. If the dog is acting like a real service dog, then it shouldn't be a problem anyway. I get that people can be allergic, but I'm super allergic to cats. If you have a cat and stand near me I can tell because that is enough to trigger my allergies. But I don't go around suggesting that people who own cats shouldn't be allowed places because of my allergies.

I have an aqcuantiance that owns a restaurant, and she just posted a huge rant on Facebook about service dogs...apparently someone came to her restaurant with (of all things) a Spoo service dog. She was sure the dog was a faker, since it wasn't a breed that she imagined could be used as a service dog. She was convinced that service dogs for anxiety, PTSD, etc, were ESAs, because those were "emotional conditions." She was not getting that the difference was dogs trained to perform tasks vs. not trained to perform any tasks.

The thing about more regulation that concerns me is that I would hate to see someone who needs a service dog be unable to get one, or get their dog certified, because of some regulatory hoops they have to jump through. Most of my family is military or retired military, and through them I've met a few veterans with PTSD service dogs. Those dogs are literally life savers for those guys. And if anyone in my family was going through that, I would want them to have the option of having a dog.

One thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the photo of the Facebook post with the pit. I know a lot of folks on this forum hate pit bulls, but I've met a legitimate pit bull service dog, and she was a very well trained and behaved girl and she provides a real service for her owner. Plus, I don't see how being 80 and drunk automatically means that someone couldn't have PTSD...anyone can end up with PTSD, not just soldiers, and there are plenty of older Vietnam veterans that still struggle. I have no clue wether that dog in the photo was legitimate or not, but the tone of the post bothered me.
With the organization I have my SPOO with, they insist on red vest and leash, plus specific patches. She is my second DAD. Over 36 weeks of PAT training and 500 hours of nose work to get her where she was fit for public use. I have 7-8 grand in her, I didn't get her from the pound and throw a vest from Amazon on her.

I'm sick of these "registered" dogs with US Service Dog Registry, never met a legitimate dog with them but the owners are quick to pull it out. I saw a pit with a homemade vest rip the leash out of the owner's hand and go jump on another patron at a restaurant and when they questioned him he had that paper out faster than you can bat an eye, meanwhile the dog was running wild sniffing at tables for food.

At the casinos I frequent, they ask for papers now because everyone brings in their USSDR papers with their dog in strollers, etc. Other than argue with them, I produce my dog's wallet card from SDI to get in.

I gave my local grocer the latest FAQ from the ADA because so many dogs were riding in the baskets and it clearly states they shouldn't be, either they walk or are carried.

Yes, fakes are a problem, they make it harder on the rest of us and that USSDR thing is out of control.

Here is the solution, and it is free. Have doctors hand out a wallet card that simply states " This person is Disabled pursuant to the Americans with Disabilities Act". No definition of the disability is required, this will eliminate 90% of the fakes. Then treat the dog as a medical necessity, just like a walker or cane. I don't think SDI should get rich forcing people who owner train to pay them for certification. I already have a trainer, but she isn't on their payroll.

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Old 12-08-2016, 07:34 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I meant CCI, not SDI.
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:13 AM   #29 (permalink)
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They need to do this in the United States. Some counties ie Miami Dade County do require licenses for SD. I met a girl kept telling me about her online registration for her ESA so she could fly her dog without charge. For those of us who are legally blind deaf or disabled in some other way, the leniency seems awful. For public access ADI has a lot of standards you must pass to be allowed in public. I train with a program and they give you ID cards from their program so you aren't just a person with a vest and card.
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Old 12-08-2016, 09:01 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I have a wallet card and a copy of a registered letter from Sugar Dogs Int, in her vest all the time just in case. I never needed either until the USSDR popped up. All of these so called registrations are a joke now, they'd register Scooby Doo for $40. I've seen 3 fakes this week, and I've just been in a gas station and grocery, other than work. They are easy to spot.
I think my doctor card is a brilliant idea so it will never happen.
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