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Old 03-19-2017, 06:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I only came on to say you have my complete empathy. Naomi is in the throes of coat change in a full blown, North American show puppy trim. Went from a ten minute brush out to an hour of line brushing, misting, breaking mats up with fingers behind ears and in armpits. GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So, I feel your pain! Know you are not alone. LORD HELP ME!
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Arreau, I truly appreciate the empathy! I knew that once the coat changed it would be more challenging than before and it would be prone to knotting, but this is just so intense that I have to come up with some sort of modification for my own sanity and for the comfort of the dog. I feel like the moment I free up knots and mats and get it to a point where I can pull a comb through (phew!!), 3 seconds later the comb can't go through anymore! I think I have all the knots out one day, and the next day you would think I haven't brushed him for weeks because he is so matted and knotted again. But I promised his breeder we would go to shows, and so I am determined to hold up my end of the bargain. My deal with Puffy is that he gets a bully stick during his grooming session, and only then. SO he just chews away merrily most of the time and doesn't seem too bothered. But the sessions are getting so long that he can mow down an entire bully stick in once session these days! Not sure if I can afford this treat at this rate! Yet we continue to fight the good fight.

I am considering it a lesson in character building :-)
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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If you do a Conti or modified Conti, be very careful to take the jacket back far enough. That is a common error, and placement of the jacket and rosettes is something of an art where a skilled groomer adjusts the trim to flatter the dog. I guess you don't need rosettes if you are eventually going to do a Scandi.

As for coat change, I feel your pain. I joke that the most important products for coat change are elbow grease and wine. Experiment with what products work the best. Your issues might be different from mine--e.g., static versus humidity, each its own special kind of hell. One general breakdown of products is silicone vs oil. I am in the silicone camp, e.g., Cowboy Magic and CC Ice on Ice.

Do you have a stand dryer? IMO the very best way to avoid matting is to brush/blow out the coat every day or every other day under the dryer. The dryer acts as a third hand and lets you spot webbing and little (or big) mats. It also changes the coat texture and makes it easier to lightly brush out the coat.
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Verve I have a force dryer does having a stand attachment help? I was thinking about getting one in the future because I always need someone to help blow dry him


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Old 03-19-2017, 07:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Thanks Verve, you make some interesting points I didn't know much about. I do all of Puffy's maintenance and even scissor him myself weekly just to maintain some basic shape and to practice. However, I have a very skilled groomer (my mentor) who is a poodle specialist and also breeder for over 20 years. That said, she has a great eye for poodle style, so i will trust her to do this cut as she is responsible for all of his "real haircuts" every few months. I am sure if I did it he would look like a moron. My skills are...amateur at best.

I don't have a stand dryer right now and yes, my mentor is encouraging me to invest in one soon. I can't afford it at the moment because first I need to get a nicer clipper for Puff and then fix the electrical system in my car...You know how life goes! But I am certainly looking forward to investing 400 bucks in a dog hair dryer. Wink wink! (Everything is expensive here.)

But my partner does often help me a bit with Puff's grooming sessions, so I could ask him to hold the dryer that we do have for now. Question: You do this on dry fur, is that right? I actually have not heard of using the dryer for de-matting and appreciate the information.

Right now I am using a product called 'Knot Sure' by Animology. It costs $17 a bottle in Finland, and I am personally 'not sure' if it really helps much! Maybe I should special order this CC on Ice that you mention and everyone seems to rave about it.

This is what I have:
https://www.viovet.co.uk/Animology_K...2VMaAjn08P8HAQ

Until then, we are very familiar with the elbow grease and wine trick ;-)
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Can someone please enlighten me, once the coat change is in full swing, how long does it usually last? Are we looking at another year or more of this really difficult constantly tangled grooming battle, or does it only last a few months?

I hear that once it is over things get a whole lot easier. I cling to this notion.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:33 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Someone tole me it stops at 18 months


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Old 03-20-2017, 09:05 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffDaddy View Post

But my partner does often help me a bit with Puff's grooming sessions, so I could ask him to hold the dryer that we do have for now. Question: You do this on dry fur, is that right? I actually have not heard of using the dryer for de-matting and appreciate the information.
Yes, you blow through a dry coat, with just a bit of brushing spray (diluted conditioner or official brushing spray). Whether a force dryer will work depends partly on how intense it is, and you will also get varying opinions on that. If you aren't careful, a force dryer can make the hair curl back on itself and cause more problems, but I know people who do dry almost an entire show coat with one.

The other key is that clean hair is your friend, and for me, that weekly bath is the reset button where it's useful to take as much time as necessary to wind up with a clean, straight, bone-dry coat. If you cut corners on any of those things, it will come back to bite you.

One famous handler talks about matted hair having memory, and that it will remat almost immediately. He says the best solution to that is to bathe, even if you just bathed the day before. That's easier advice to dispense and take when you have an assistant to do the bathing!
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:26 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info Verve. I do wash the dog about once a week which is already a lot of work for me. As someone who will certainly never strive to the heights of becoming "a well known handler" I, too, unfortunately do not have an assistant to spend 3 hours washing and blow drying my dog every day!
Though I know you are right that that washing helps a lot. Once a week already feels like a lot to a mere mortal such as myself :-) I do usually end up washing the legs once or twice between weekly baths just because they are more prone to getting dirty.

I have surely experienced the hair memory you speak of. I suppose it is a lot like when you braid your hair, it will hold it's curl until you wash it. I have also noticed that the process of de-matting and matting can simply damage the hair enough so that it will always be more prone to mat up in places where it has matted badly before, even with washing.

After Puffy stayed with his grandma for a couple weeks when he was 8 months (before the coat change had set in) She just didn't brush him well and so his coat was in huge giant impossible mats when he came back to us. We were able to get some of these out, but the hair has been so damaged by the matting process that it would always go back into mats just in those particular spots where it was the worst, even though the rest of the coat was in pretty good shape and still in puppy mode. Someone at the forum had warned us about this as well. Permanently damaged memory!

We had to give up and cut the hair on the body and neck short at 9 months for this reason. Also, some of the mats proved to be so impossible that he started to develop a skin infection after a few days de-matting. That was a dark time, which I would not like to revisit!

A month or two later the coat has really changed drastically to become so thick and tightly curled, that even the short hair which is only 2-3 inches is difficult to maintain.

I absolutely can't imagine what would happen if we had to go on vacation at this point, because I can barely stay on top of it myself, and I am dedicated and know how to do it (ha, for the most part!) Fortunately we don't have any travel plans coming up in the near future!
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:14 AM   #20 (permalink)
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This is what I had to contend with the whole time he was showing. He was going through coat change while he was showing. I couldn't have put him in any other style. I was so glad when he retired and I could chop off all his hair. lol. I think I posted a thread about that, showing all the hair that fell on the table.

This is a very special lady I was privileged to meet and have groom (finishing) my dog. She took an interest in him at this one show and went all over him, perfecting what had been done. She was incredibly meticulous.




I think that picture you posted would help for sure...At least some of it would be shorter. It definitely is time consuming to go through the hair every day... at least once...every square inch right down to the skin. You'll still need to do all that but at least, you'll have a few areas that aren't so long.
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