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Old 03-16-2010, 03:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Bad Black vs. Blue

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I still don't totally understand the bad black versus the blue. Basically, I am trying to figure out which I have. Kala is out in the sun some, but not that much. She looks brown on all of her jacket hair unless you look at the roots(which are black). Everywhere else is still pretty black except for her muzzle which has white/gray flecks and looks to be graying more around the nose. Her pigment is black. Is there a definite way I can tell if she is a bad black? Would a pedigree help?
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I've had the same curiosity about Zulee. Not that it matters, but it would be nice as a poodle fanatic to know what color my poodle is. I've been waiting and watching her coat change by the month. Her legs are almost completely silver blue now. Her muzzle is lighter with silver and the hair above the eyes is changing. Her back looks black, but can have a gray shimmer depending on the light. She has had brown highlights ever since I got her.

She has silver guard hairs coming in on her back. Is it possible to have a grizzled blue? When does a grizzled black become grizzled? Does this happen with age rather than a coat clear?

Sorry Kalamama. I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I have the same questions.
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BFF View Post
Sorry Kalamama. I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I have the same questions.
Oh no, I don't care. I just hope there is a definite answer. Is gray a color or is that just a bad black?

I still want to show Kala once her coats is grown out enough but I am assuming I shouldn't show a bad black? I am afraid if the judge asked me her color and I said black, then he/she would put her at the bottom for sure. If I said blue and she is in the middle of changing colors that might sound better. I don't know if she is a blue though.
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I've posted this link before, which has some great color information on it. Hopefully it will help you determine what color your girl is OH, what color is her skin (like on her muzzle and face)?

http://arpeggiopoodles.tripod.com/

If I remember correctly, a black will have light skin and a blue will have greyish skin.

BFF, I think your's is a silver that is in the process of clearing. Pretty either way
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I've posted this link before, which has some great color information on it. Hopefully it will help you determine what color your girl is OH, what color is her skin (like on her muzzle and face)?

http://arpeggiopoodles.tripod.com/

If I remember correctly, a black will have light skin and a blue will have greyish skin.

BFF, I think your's is a silver that is in the process of clearing. Pretty either way
Thanks Cameo. I did read that entire article this past weekend but I still don't know for definite because she has similarities to both a bad black and a blue. Her skin has a bluish tint but I thought all blacks had that as well. Maybe there is just no definite answer right now. I am impatient
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Zulee looks like a phantom (black and tan, or chocolate and tan)



It's hard to tell from the pictures.

Last edited by Salukie; 03-16-2010 at 05:38 PM. Reason: fixed the pic
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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KalaMama:

Black: All hairs are black from root to tip. Shaved face is black.




Blue: All hairs are the same shade of grey from root to tip. (Puppies are born black and their coat gradually changes to grey) Shaved face is grey.

Poodle in front is blue, poodle in back is black.


Blue poodle:



Bad Black: Most of the coat is black with many white hairs mixed in. From a distance, when you can't see the colour of the individual hairs, the dog looks grey. Shaved face is black.

Can't find a picture of this, sorry.

Most black dogs get white hairs as they age. A black poodle is a bad black when it starts getting a lot of white hairs at a young age.

Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong.
I hope this helps.
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Old Blue poodle:



If you ignore the greying around the muzzle, all the individual hairs are grey.



Old Black poodle:



Again, ignore the greying muzzle... look at the topknot, you can see white hairs mixed in with the black.

This would be a bad black if the dog was young.
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Lots of great information.

I think Zulee is a bad black because she has black hair with lots of silver mixed in. Her legs and chest are completely silver/grey, so maybe she will have a phantom pattern when she is done clearing. Her muzzle has black hairs with lots of silver/grey mixed in. Her skin is very light silver or pink depending where you look. Silver on her back and pink belly. I don't shave her face close enough to see the skin. As a wee little pup it was black. She is the one on the left in the picture.

Course there is still the question about the brown highlights and why some of the black hairs are lightening over time. If she turns out to be silver that would be neat too. I just don't think her face is an indication of a real silver.

Maybe I just don't realize what a grizzled black is vs a maturing black getting gray hairs.

I do appreciate the examples. Maybe with a little more time, the mystery of Zulee's color will come clear to me.
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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D'oh.... here is Zulee's puppy picture. She is on the left.
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