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Old 02-02-2010, 08:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default moyen/kleins?

I'm researching breeders and ran across these websites,
http://karbitpoodles.com/home.html and http://rosemelspoodles.com/ . The size would be great for my family, but I'm not too sure what to think of it, as in breeding minis with standards. Anyone here familiar with this?
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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moyens/kleins are an OFFICIAL size, just the same as mini and standards over there! So not a bad thing at all, they just have 4 sizes compared to our 3.
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
moyens/kleins are an OFFICIAL size
Yeah, they are , but I am not sure that they get them by breeding standard to mini

I think they are in the category of their own and bred only between themselves.

The structure of puppies that this breeder sells is really not good O-o ... IMO

I hope some breeders will jump in soon with explanation : ))) !
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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In Europe, I'm pretty sure they allow breeding of Poodles of different sizes, as long as it's no more than 10 cm.
I think this makes sense, because the structure would be kinda wrong when breeding a standard to a miniature,

I've seen a breeding like this, the dog's head it weird, it's legs are weird, it's body it weird, and it's tail is weird.

It's a weird looking Poodle full stop!!!
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I have seen some glorious Moyen's on some European web sites. A lot of North American Moyen breeders are importing from Europe and breeding them to their smaller Standards. I am not sure yet how I feel about it, but do know that this size is likely a potential gold mine for the people who breed them. I also think there is going to be a much bigger risk in the health of the pups because the toys and minis have problems that are exclusive to the toys and minis, as do the Standards, so now it will be interesting to see what happens when they start getting the genes of the minis and standards all rolled into one dog.
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Moyens are the "new" craze. Understand, though, that in Europe, they are not created by combining Minis with Standards, but typically by breeding Minis up in size.

Minis and Standards may be the same breed, but they are very different in type and temperament. If you took a Gamma Ray and enlarged a Mini, it would not look or act like a Standard. I would not consider the Mini/Standard breedings I have seen to be successful. Usually the Poodles are a combination of parts that don't all work together. Also, by breeding the two varieties together you introduce the health issues of both breeds.
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:32 AM   #7 (permalink)
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If you read the previous red poodle thread , you would have read that the Red Standard poodle was originally developed by aMini/Standard breeding. Interesting stuff.. As far as the success of the Moyen/klein that remains to be seen . Lots of European breeders are doing this. And some Canadian Breeders are jumping into the mix. and importing dogs from Germany Bringing in some very much needed diversity..
I personally am very excited to see the outcome...
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Vinnie is a kleinpudel
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I was going to say, you should talk to Vinnie's mom, but Locket beat me to it!

We Vinnie!
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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http://karbitpoodles.com/home.html
Karin is breeding some wonderful dogs. They have great structure, and introduce some much needed diversity. Even Helen King, who has the infamous Mini Me with the problems, has high praise for them, as she's tested some of the litters.
But, - Karins dogs are for the most part very well suited for agility, and prolly need a job, not just laying on the couch. One of the members here has one of Karins pups.
Carole
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