outwest

Are you sure the person who is adopting the mother won't take them both into their house until the pup is old enough? Why would they want to adopt her and then leave her in the kennel? Doesn't make sense. I would worry about the baby catching all manner of diseases in there. But, yah, you should take him if you are ready to raised a puppy! Sometimes singleton's make great pets!

PS It is against the law to remove a pup before 8 weeks old in California, too.

schnauzerpoodle

So that is a singleton puppy?

Vixen

yes, he has no littermates.

Vixen

They are both still at the shelter so far, I'll ask about that tomorrow too though.

fjm

There are several reasons I would hesitate - firstly he is growing up in a not very rich environment; secondly, he is a singleton; thirdly, it seems highly likely that his mother was very stressed during pregnancy.

The first is probably not the most important - if there are any volunteers around they will find the puppy irresistible, and if the shelter would allow you to visit and play with him, even take a radio in, you could go a long way to minimise the issues. I would be concerned about the unpleasant and scary experiences he may be getting with other dogs and even people, though.

Singleton pups tend to need a lot of extra work when it comes to bit inhibition and impulse control - they lack the rough and tumble of litter mates teaching them that they have to take their turn, and that painful biting means no one will play with you. This could be a particular problem if your children are young, and likely to be frightened by a pup that bites (and those bites can really hurt - see some of the recent threads on the subject!).

Thirdly, maternal stress has been shown to adversely affect pups in the womb, with puppies tending to show higher levels of stress and fearfulness throughout their lives. Again, this could be an issue around young children.

None of these things are absolutes, and none of them are irredeemable, but I do think that you need to think long and hard. This pup could turn out to be a born angel - it is likely however that he will have quite a few issues that are going to need time and effort on your part to resolve (over and above the hard work any puppy entails!). If you believe you have the knowledge and experience to cope (or are prepared to find people who have), and your children are old enough to help, go for it. If you are unsure, or your children are still very young, I would think long and hard...

__________________

To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden,
where doing nothing was not boring- it was peace.

~ Milan Kundera

Carley's Mom

At our local pound they have let me take dogs before altering them, IF I pay for it at the adoption. They can most of the time tell about a person . If they can trust that person or not. I don't think that pup will have a clue he is in a kennel...lol Take him home and love him. As for him being a single pup, I had one of those once, it was the most gentle, loving dog I think I have ever known. He was also born in a kennel... stayed there until he was over a year old. He turned out great!

__________________

Chagall's mom

I can well understand being torn here about whether to take the pup or not. Life is not wholly predictable; things could go swimmingly, or not. I would encourage you to first speak with your vet for his/ her input. I think outwest and fjm offered some terrific considerations. I would be stymied as to what to do myself. But taking the time to thoroughly think things through as you're doing would be my first step as well. Best of luck to you with your decision!

Some info on rearing singletons.
Dog Behavior Blog: Singleton Puppies
Dog Behavior Blog: Singleton Puppies
The problems that singleton puppies are prone to having are the result of not being raised in this standard puppy environment. Typical problems in singletons are lack of bite inhibition, being unable to get out of trouble calmly and graciously, an inability to diffuse social tension, inability to handle frustration, lack of social skills, lack of impulse control, and touch sensitivity.

If you find out about a singleton puppy early -- anytime before the puppy heads to its new home particularly, there are things that can be done. Be sure to work on teaching bite inhibition early and often, and handle the puppy a lot to avoid issues with touch sensitivity. Any gentle, regular handling is likely to help. Push the puppy off the nipple once or twice a feeding to get the puppy used to interruptions and handling the resulting frustration. Have the puppy spend time with puppies of the same age a lot and as early as possible.

If at all possible, consider raising the puppy with another litter. Getting to spend a lot of time with another litter lets a singleton puppy have a more typical or normal experience as a young puppy. The play time that puppies spend with each other goes a long way towards teaching puppies many of their social skills, including bite inhibition, frustration tolerance, impulse control, self control, and the ability to be flexible in all sorts of social interactions.

__________________

Just be nice.
Cabryn Chagall, CGC

meredian

This is more of an emotional than a logical response (sometimes I think there is room for both) - but someone needs to take that pup, especially if it is a high kill shelter! I would say if you are prepared for whatever the pup needs (could be extra work, patience, training), then go for it. You've had poodles. The pup could very well end up with someone who knows nothing and thus have an even harder time in life.

__________________

meredian

Vixen - would love to know what you decided, or when you decide! If you do end up adopting I'd be so curious to hear how it goes

__________________

Vixen

We decided that no rescue dog, or really Any dog, will fit the perfect picture of what we want in our heads.. so we will be adopting him. We visited him and his mama, filled out the paperwork and even paid the adoption fee. He is a beautiful little guy, his mom is in needbofva bath and groom but is also beautiful very well mannered and sweet. He is getting lots of handling which is good. I do worry about him being exposed to germs there (we lost a dog to parvo a couple years ago) and being a singleton though. We are willing to take the chance on him. We are having the hardest time with a name for the little guy for some reason. He is almost 6 weeks so we do have more weeks before he comes home. Maybe we just don't know him well enough. After all, he is still just a tiny baby.

I'll definitely update frequently before and after he comes home. I'm SOOO excited! Boy is a big pup going to be a lot of work and I'll probably need advice and pointers and of course I'll share lots of photos.

__________________
Lyn,
Vixen, Misha, Sherlock, Vlora and Vernon