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Old 01-03-2013, 01:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Toy vs Miniature

Hi im new and my dog background is explained in 'no poodle yet just gathering information' in members introduction.

I have never had a poodle but I am researching dogs now for when I get one in 2 to 3 years. Right now I live in student housing where pets are not allowed.

I would really like honest answers so I can make an informed decision later on.

1. Is there any difference in energy levels between toys and miniatures?

2. The poodle is always described as the one of or the most intelligent dogs, does that only apply to the standard or does the same apply to the smaller ones.

3. would you recommended toy or miniature for apartment living?

4. What do you wish somebody told you before you got your first dog/poodle?

I have a lot more questions but I am going to spread them over several threads
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When all is done, upon the tomb is seen,
Not what he was, but what he should have been.
But the poor dog, in life the firmest friend,
The first to welcome, foremost to defend,
Whose honest heart is still his master’s own,
Who labors, fights, lives, breathes for him alone,
Unhonored falls, unnoticed all his worth,
Denied in heaven the soul he held on earth –
While man, vain insect! hopes to be forgiven,
And claims himself a sole exclusive heaven.

Lord Byron - Epitaph of a Dog - 1808
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by spotsonofbun View Post
Hi im new and my dog background is explained in 'no poodle yet just gathering information' in members introduction.

I have never had a poodle but I am researching dogs now for when I get one in 2 to 3 years. Right now I live in student housing where pets are not allowed.

I would really like honest answers so I can make an informed decision later on.

1. Is there any difference in energy levels between toys and miniatures?

2. The poodle is always described as the one of or the most intelligent dogs, does that only apply to the standard or does the same apply to the smaller ones.

3. would you recommended toy or miniature for apartment living?

4. What do you wish somebody told you before you got your first dog/poodle?

I have a lot more questions but I am going to spread them over several threads
1. Depends on the bloodline and individual. I would personally go thru a show breeder if their dogs are being worked as well in agility, obedience, etc all the better. Make sure they do the minimum genetic testing on their breeding stock. A breeder will know their own line and should help pick the right personality for you. Generally they are very energetic, athletic, and agile dogs regardless of size. My two girls can Veg out when I do and are willing to go on a hiking, fishing, and camping trip just as easily

2. Yes extremely intelligent. I can teach my mini a agility obstacle in 3x with the third she gives me that look like uh is that all? My toy uses her intelligence to outsmart you and get what she wants. Particularly my toy altho the mini occasionally really likes to juggle around in her mind if she Really wants to do the command. Toys are lil Napoleons that love to be in your lap and Love to manipulate their humans. Both sizes should be treated like dogs first as some spoiled dogs become the stereotypical aggressive, yappy, and or neurotic lil dogs.

3. Either would do fine in an apt. Both dogs need exercise and mental stimulation to have a happy poodle. My mini can go and go and still have leftover energy lol. My toy used to be like that but has slowed down a bit. Both love to play.

4. Even if you obtain your poodle from a show breeder, etc. always ask to see genetic testing results on the sire and dam. Don't just take their word on it or assume that they will tell you everything you need to know about health issues in poodles. Learn the minimal genetic tests recommended for the variety and make sure the breeder test for it.


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Old 01-03-2013, 03:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I had a Border collie/ lab mix that literally no exercise or mental stimulation could calm down. It took two days of constant off leash running and play on a friend's farm to make him tired. Is a poodle like that?

would a small poodle (toy or miniature) be happy with a 1hr to 2 hr on leash walk and then some indoor play and training per day?
__________________
When all is done, upon the tomb is seen,
Not what he was, but what he should have been.
But the poor dog, in life the firmest friend,
The first to welcome, foremost to defend,
Whose honest heart is still his master’s own,
Who labors, fights, lives, breathes for him alone,
Unhonored falls, unnoticed all his worth,
Denied in heaven the soul he held on earth –
While man, vain insect! hopes to be forgiven,
And claims himself a sole exclusive heaven.

Lord Byron - Epitaph of a Dog - 1808
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm sure there are exceptions but generally that should be plenty of exercise. I have heard of some minis are totally crazy from some bloodlines. I know there is this one toy poodle that was all over the place and whined/ barked and panted like crazy when her owner or anyone wasnt holding her. Now her owner is older and Really spoils her. I think I someone else's hand I'm sure she would be a lot different. My girls have an off on button lol. They are ready for anything anytime as long as they can come, but when I want to relax they are happy to lay with me or if I direct them lay in their bed. They do well with direction lol, when the In- laws are over they don't tend to listen as well. Kinda like grandma and grandpa come over lol. If you go with a show breeder, meet the parents, and Ask the breeder for a dog with lower or medium energy they should be able to pick out the right pup for you


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Old 01-03-2013, 06:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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My big mini needed 60-90 mins off leash play with other dogs plus one or two 20-minute on-leash walk when he was a puppy. Once he turned one, he has calmed down a lot. Now he's happy with a one-hour on-leash walk and a 20-minute frisbee time per day. During the rainy season, he's okay to stay indoor for one or two days.

My mini is very intelligent. He observes and he solves problems. He's happy living in an apartment and he's trained to use the Potty Park located on the balcony.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotsonofbun View Post
Hi im new and my dog background is explained in 'no poodle yet just gathering information' in members introduction.

I have never had a poodle but I am researching dogs now for when I get one in 2 to 3 years. Right now I live in student housing where pets are not allowed.

I would really like honest answers so I can make an informed decision later on.

1. Is there any difference in energy levels between toys and miniatures?

2. The poodle is always described as the one of or the most intelligent dogs, does that only apply to the standard or does the same apply to the smaller ones.

3. would you recommended toy or miniature for apartment living?

4. What do you wish somebody told you before you got your first dog/poodle?

I have a lot more questions but I am going to spread them over several threads
1: as others pointed out it depends on the breeding. However, mine are turning out to be very similar. Raven is 9 mo, and Trevor was pretty close to his craziness at 9 mo. Although both have a decent "off" button....if I put Raven in his crate and Trev in my room, they settle in for naps.

2: absolutely! Raven can outsmart just about any dog if tested. He is one bright little boy...Teaching him is a breeze. Trev is smart too, but in a different way...he analyzes things as well as learns quickly. So if I say "come inside" whereas Raven will because he learned it well, Trev will sit a few feet from the door and stare at me, just to see if I will offer him a better option, such as a treat or another game. Not sure which type is smarter, but both are pretty intelligent. I can tell you which one is easier to deal with and that is Raven's type! Once he learns it, be pretty much always does it. He doesn't think about things too much.

3: either one....both are a nice size. A toy can be more easily exercised indoors though....I often play fetch down the hall in my house with Raven and he gets worn out within a reasonable time. It's a bit harder with Trev.

4: how much thinking poodles do. I knew they were intelligent, but no one told me that they think! Everything is processed....Trev never stops watching, analyzing, observing. Nothing gets by him....if I watch him and he is awake, his eyes are moving back and forth across the room. Raven is the same....always watching, ready to jump up and take a closer look. ( which can be annoying when you are wrapping his ears lol!) This can be a very good thing, but it also gets them into trouble. Especially Trev, as I mentioned before. He questions and pushes me a lot....always weighing his options. Raven doesn't do that so much....but he is better at say puzzle toys and opening things. Go figure....

As far as exercise, mine rarely get more than an hour...right now with the weather being cold and/or rainy, they get even less than normal. So far so good. They play a lot with each other though, and I take them to work everyday, so they get a lot of mental stimulation there. Normally though, we spend about 30-45 mins walking or at the dog park running and then I may or may not train them some. Usually I spend some time playing fetch with each individual though. Both seem happy with that arrangement.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I have a large toy - around 11 inches/9 pounds. She is robust enough to run with bigger dogs, but small enough to curl up on my lap. She is not a high energy dog - 1.5 - 2 hours of off leash exercise keeps her relaxed and happy in the house. In fact it seems to be a pattern with poodles, that they run and play very enthusiastically outside, and are relaxed and laid back inside (provided they have enough physical and mental exercise, of course!). Poppy is very easy to train - she makes me look like a brilliant trainer, and I don't think it is entirely conicidental that my agility instructor has acquired two small poodles since Poppy took the class! Sophy, my papillon, was very different - she loved the A frame and dog walk and learned those very quickly, but jumping and weaving were simply not going to happen. Not even for chicken, and that is really saying something! Most poodles I have known are very quick to learn - so be aware of what you might be teaching them inadvertently...
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:04 AM   #8 (permalink)
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fjm I am considering papillon too and I have to say that the markings on your papillon and the colour of your poodle are gorgeous!

its really nice to hear someone who can actually compare those two breeds from personal experience. I am a bit scared to get a dog with no off switch like my old dog however my favourite thing to do with my old dog was to play and walk him and take him places where he could run off leash. So i don't want a very lazy dog like a pug. I think perhaps a low energy to mid energy on the poodle spectrum might be a good fit.

ladyscarletthawk if i rescue and therefore don't know the bloodline is there any obvious signs that i should look out for when I meet the dog for the first time?

Also if I do rescue or get an older dog I do expect it to have some issues, what behavioural problems are in your experience the worst to fix in poodles?
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When all is done, upon the tomb is seen,
Not what he was, but what he should have been.
But the poor dog, in life the firmest friend,
The first to welcome, foremost to defend,
Whose honest heart is still his master’s own,
Who labors, fights, lives, breathes for him alone,
Unhonored falls, unnoticed all his worth,
Denied in heaven the soul he held on earth –
While man, vain insect! hopes to be forgiven,
And claims himself a sole exclusive heaven.

Lord Byron - Epitaph of a Dog - 1808
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I think the main physical issues I would be looking for in a rescue would be poor conformation that might affect pleasure in exercise, PRA, and luxating patellas. On the temperament front, in the UK at least, the issues tend to be those that affect many small dogs that have been over protected, over indulged, and undersocialised - or dogs are from breeding farms and have everything to learn. But there are wonderful poodles awaiting homes in rescue - just look at Skye's early posts!
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I think the main physical issues I would be looking for in a rescue would be poor conformation that might affect pleasure in exercise, PRA, and luxating patellas. On the temperament front, in the UK at least, the issues tend to be those that affect many small dogs that have been over protected, over indulged, and undersocialised - or dogs are from breeding farms and have everything to learn. But there are wonderful poodles awaiting homes in rescue - just look at Skye's early posts!
Im in England
yeah the overprotected small dogs with 'small dog syndrom' is sort of what I am expecting because I would assume that is the main reason that small dogs end in rescues and shelters. The smallest dog I have ever had was about the size of a border collie and the biggest was a St Bernard.

Are there any good books based on Positive reinforcement on how to deal with small dog syndrom or even just on how to rehabilitate fearful adult dogs?

How do I socialise a small dog with big dog while at the same time making sure its safe?
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When all is done, upon the tomb is seen,
Not what he was, but what he should have been.
But the poor dog, in life the firmest friend,
The first to welcome, foremost to defend,
Whose honest heart is still his master’s own,
Who labors, fights, lives, breathes for him alone,
Unhonored falls, unnoticed all his worth,
Denied in heaven the soul he held on earth –
While man, vain insect! hopes to be forgiven,
And claims himself a sole exclusive heaven.

Lord Byron - Epitaph of a Dog - 1808
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