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Old 01-04-2013, 07:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
fjm
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To be honest, the number of poodles and papillons that end up in general rescue in the UK is miniscule, and there are waiting lists for the breed rescues, although it is always worth enquiring!

I've yet to find a really good book on raising small breed puppies - most just seem to have general dog rearing advice, a page or two specifically relevant to small dogs, and a large section on buying haute couture clothing and diamante collars. I think it is a bit of a tight rope, but if you know of any big dogs that are calm, well socialised and can be relied on to self handicap around a small puppy, you are half way there! I was very lucky to have two lovely Spinones locally, who were immensely kind with mine when they were pups, and taught them lots about dog body language and etiquette. I think if you can find a breeder who keeps the pups with their Mum and litter until they are at least 10 weeks old while also really working on socialising the pups with people and other dogs that is the ideal - small breed pups in particular seem to really benefit from the extra time with Mum and siblings. Then it is a matter of constantly remembering they are dogs, while also trying to ensure they only have positive, happy experiences of the world! Making a safe place between my feet, and resisting the temptation to sweep them up into my arms, helped, but you do need to get very good at reading dog body language very quickly!

Whereabouts are you in England? You are very welcome to come and meet my two if it would help you with your research. We are in North Lancashire.

Good advice on rehabilitating fearful dogs at Fearfuldogs' Blog - and her books have been highly recommended too.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
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My mini is very energetic he can play at the dog park for 90 minutes and recover on the way home and be ready to go again. He is just a year old so I'm hoping that factors into it.

Everyone commented on how smart poodles are when I told people that I was getting one and I have to say that I am still surprised by by their intelligence!
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:40 AM   #13 (permalink)
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To be honest, the number of poodles and papillons that end up in general rescue in the UK is miniscule, and there are waiting lists for the breed rescues, although it is always worth enquiring!

I've yet to find a really good book on raising small breed puppies - most just seem to have general dog rearing advice, a page or two specifically relevant to small dogs, and a large section on buying haute couture clothing and diamante collars. I think it is a bit of a tight rope, but if you know of any big dogs that are calm, well socialised and can be relied on to self handicap around a small puppy, you are half way there! I was very lucky to have two lovely Spinones locally, who were immensely kind with mine when they were pups, and taught them lots about dog body language and etiquette. I think if you can find a breeder who keeps the pups with their Mum and litter until they are at least 10 weeks old while also really working on socialising the pups with people and other dogs that is the ideal - small breed pups in particular seem to really benefit from the extra time with Mum and siblings. Then it is a matter of constantly remembering they are dogs, while also trying to ensure they only have positive, happy experiences of the world! Making a safe place between my feet, and resisting the temptation to sweep them up into my arms, helped, but you do need to get very good at reading dog body language very quickly!

Whereabouts are you in England? You are very welcome to come and meet my two if it would help you with your research. We are in North Lancashire.

Good advice on rehabilitating fearful dogs at Fearfuldogs' Blog - and her books have been highly recommended too.
The papillons and poodles are actually one of the more common breeds Im looking at, the list is very long but they are very high on it. But what I have seen online of the small dogs its mostly Jack Russels. They are not on my list. I am also open to mixes as long it is the right mix and a rescue or a rehome on a reasonable price, im not going to pay a fortune for a 'designer dog' i.e. mutt with a fancy name. I am aware that rescuing might be a long shot but I will also include in my correspondence with breeders that I would be open to getting an older dog looking for a home if they know any if that fails I will simply get a puppy

I am just a bit scared that the puppy will end up as the most badly behaved dog that ever lived and I will have no one to blame but me

I used to be quite good with dog body language but I have gotten a bit rusty since my old dog was rehomed when I moved to England from Iceland. I am thinking of volunteering so I can re-socialise myself with dogs and remember my doggie manners Also I would like to learn first hand how to deal with behavioural issues especially if I get a doggie einstein like a poodle. I remember with my border collie mix how quickly the geniuses learn bad habits.

I have a lot of questions about health tests and grooming (only had labs and lab mixes) But I am going to leave those for another thread.

Also I think I would like a Toy poodle instead of miniature.

I would love to meet you and your dogs but I am in Kent :(
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Ummmm - Kent is rather a long way!

Health tests are rather more basic in the UK than the US. There are genetic tests for PRA, which are highly recommended by the KC, and I would want to see evidence of vet checks for knees, although there is not central register for checks in the UK as far as I am aware. You are unlikely to see testing for VWD etc.

As a very general rule anyone who is breeding at all seriously will KC register their pups - any other register (DLR etc) is essentially a con - they will register kittens, pigs or anything as pedigree dogs if the fees are paid! KC registration - or even Approved breeder status - does not mean a great deal, unfortunately, but it is at least a starting point.

It is well worth learning to do grooming yourself, if you have the time to spare. You can pick up adequate kit for£200-400 on eBay, recoup the costs in 18 - 24 months, and save a great deal of money over a poodle lifetime. Poodles need clipping every 6 - 8 weeks, and a clip for a toy will be £20 - 30 or more, even if you have kept your dog well brushed out in between professional grooms.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yeah it scared me a bit when I was doing research into poodles there was a very long list of genetic diseases like addisons but there were very few tests required by the assured breeder scheme by the Kennel club.

I would never pay for a purebred unless it was registered by the Kennel Club.
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Whose honest heart is still his master’s own,
Who labors, fights, lives, breathes for him alone,
Unhonored falls, unnoticed all his worth,
Denied in heaven the soul he held on earth –
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotsonofbun View Post
ladyscarletthawk if i rescue and therefore don't know the bloodline is there any obvious signs that i should look out for when I meet the dog for the first time?

Also if I do rescue or get an older dog I do expect it to have some issues, what behavioural problems are in your experience the worst to fix in poodles?
For me at least the worst behavior issues to fix would be anxious, shy, separation anxiety. Certain forms of aggression would be easier, but a good rescue should not adopt out aggressive dogs. They are a liability, and there are too many nice dogs dying everyday.
Not every dog in rescue is abused or had a bad life. I would recommend reading the dog listener as there is a lot of info that could be helpful to you.
Many rescues will help you choose the right dog for you and your life style. Altho I heard years ago that rescue poodles in the UK are hard to come by



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Old 01-04-2013, 05:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Potsie is a small miniature (about 12 in./ 12.5 lb.), and to me, he's the perfect size for cuddling, yet he's sturdier than a toy. We adopted him from a rescue at age 2, and he's now 4. He had an unusual rescue story - severe neglect and abuse, so he's much more reserved than a normal poodle. Most are happy-go-lucky types!

Keep in mind that most rescues haven't endured the severe abuse that Potsie did - perhaps their owners just couldn't afford to keep them anymore (job loss, moving, etc.) - that happens a lot nowadays. I heartily recommend adopting an adult (ages 2-3). They tend to be calmer than a puppy. Just be sure to adopt from a good rescue, preferably a poodle rescue, that temperament tests their dogs, as well as completely vets them (spay/neuter, shots, heartworm test). Ask about luxating patellas - that's a common issue in the smaller poodles. They can match the right dog to your lifestyle.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I don't know how you feel about terriers, and he may be just a bit too high energy, but there is a rather cute poodle/border terrier cross on Dogsblog at the moment: Archie – 1 year old male Poodle cross Border Terrier dog for adoption
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I don't know how you feel about terriers, and he may be just a bit too high energy, but there is a rather cute poodle/border terrier cross on Dogsblog at the moment: Archie – 1 year old male Poodle cross Border Terrier dog for adoption
Oh my god he is so cute but I am in student housing at the moment so I can't

I am doing my research now when I can't because if I did when I could get a dog immediately I would take the first fluffy one with sad eyes. Also I want to have a little doggie fund before I get a dog so I can buy it proper food. I have dealt with the consequence of getting a dog that didn't fit our lifestyle before out of impulse. We held on to him but it was difficult.

so more or less this is the list of breeds I am considering I haven't gone into detail research into everyone yet I am just slowly working myself through them.

Chinese crested
yorkshire terrier
australian silky terrier
italian greyhound
small poodle
havanese
coton de tulear
bichon frise
maltese
lowchen
papillon
bolognese

Majority are not that common in the UK that might be an issue. The poodle is a favourite at the moment.
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Not what he was, but what he should have been.
But the poor dog, in life the firmest friend,
The first to welcome, foremost to defend,
Whose honest heart is still his master’s own,
Who labors, fights, lives, breathes for him alone,
Unhonored falls, unnoticed all his worth,
Denied in heaven the soul he held on earth –
While man, vain insect! hopes to be forgiven,
And claims himself a sole exclusive heaven.

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Old 01-05-2013, 03:22 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Very sensible! I know the woman who runs UK Papillon Rescue, and Bichon rescue is just a few miles down the road from me. Ex-breeding bichons and bichon crosses seem to appear on dogsblog.com quite regularly. I LOVE Iggies, but decided against one because the shared grounds around my house are not secure, and we are surrounded by fields full of rabbits - not a good combination for a sight hound...
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